Lessons Learned: Jyoti Patel, MD

Hello everyone, I'm Dr. Darsha Shah, and I'm Dr. Altamash Raja, and welcome to Medicine Redefined, a podcast where we will explore the often overlooked but necessary components of health, what we consider to be the fundamentals. We will investigate topics and practices that can give you and your patients the best chance to optimize a healthy lifestyle. It's time to move the needle forward and put the health back in healthcare. Why pay Uncle Sam more money than you need to come tax time? Good news. You don't have to, but you might need some help from the experts. John McCarthy, co-founder of Physician Tax Advisors, and his team of CPAs have a combined total of over 60 years of experience helping physicians save money. They know around the time your taxes are due, that it's added stress to your already full play. Get the help you need and save money while you're at it with Physician Tax Advisors. This firm is Physician Family owned and exclusively works only with physicians to lower their tax bill. By specializing in Physician finances, John and his team have helped many physicians with high student debt decide if they need to file their taxes as married filing joint or separate. We ran the numbers and know working with John just makes sense. Check them out at Drpodcastnetwork.com for slash CPA. Okay, everyone. Here is another episode where Ultimash and I discuss our key takeaways from what an amazing conversation we had with Dr. Jody Patel, who is triple bore certified, who is practicing functional medicine, and just really changing the game, really focusing on her patients and being more holistic and patient centered, which I truly believe is the main reason we go into medical school to become physicians. So enjoy the episode. Go. All right. What's up, everybody? Another episode of medicine redefined. This time, lessons learned from Dr. Jody Patel, MD, Ultimash. Let's start it off. What did you, what did you learn? Man, I left this so inspired and I wish we had kept recording. This is one of those that we kept the conversation going afterwards because we just kept picking her brain and at the time I was like, man, you know, people could really take a lot away from this as well. So again, hopefully we'll just bring her back and we keep saying that for everybody. But again, you and I are so excited about this stuff that everybody that we talked to, they're so one, they're so generous with their time and two, they have so much to offer. But you know, I remember talking to us asking her about her journey and, you know, essentially how she got to where she is in functional medicine because that's not where she started, right? She started with med pedes, which is again, long enough road that's four years. She just, or I think maybe it was a question was, you know, what value would this bring? How she would advise somebody to go down this road and her, I think, response in a nutshell was you got to go back to your, your why, again, it's the same kind of thing. You know, what led you to even go to medical school, pick a specialty? What put you on this journey? It's such a long road, right, dude? We just put our head down and you got to just grind, grind, grind. And you had mentioned that often people will stop a year or two after surgery and then maybe switch over EM and switch over, which is something that I learned newly that a lot of emergency medicine are functional doctors. And then we, you know, we kind of get stuck in this rat race. And for her, the realization really came up when her friend is the one who kind of raised that awareness for her, right? It was before she had that moment of self reflection to kind of pivot and change course. So you got to find your purpose, you know, like Dr. Patel said, she was hit in the wall for years and then she said to herself, Hey, I got to make a change. And despite being diagnosed with cancer, she didn't really know that it was kind of, and again, metastatic disease, which, you know, she had talked about how a lot of her lifestyle choices, lifestyle choices caused that and we're definitely not suggesting that that only her lifestyle choices contributed to cancer, but we know that there's a correlation, but it wasn't until this one door closed on her that she was like, okay, I'm done. So you and I are lucky that we've kind of realized that a little bit sooner. But you know, in some regards, you know, there's always a room for improvement. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for me, you know, you just, you just said how we kind of realize this early. I don't want to be part of that rat race, right? I don't want that only 15 minutes with a patient. How do you even develop a meaningful connection with somebody every 15 minutes, right? Like I just, for me, that's not the value that I want to create. And I don't think it's the way I want to impact the way I know I can. And, you know, for Dr. Patel, that's essentially, she found her outlet almost with integrative and functional medicine, right? So she's integrative, board certified and then went on to, or did that in Arizona and then also does functional medicine. So root cause analysis and really treating, and I love how she said this about, you know, of a patient could come with a skin rash. Doesn't necessarily mean that they're steroid deficient. And so we just put a steroid cream on the skin, just to let it go away. But why did that, why did that rash come in the first place? You know, let's investigate that. And, you know, so many personal statements from med students come through this shirt. I want to be like Sherlock Holmes functional medicine. It's being Sherlock Holmes, right? Because you really have to look at, hey, this is such a complex body. How is all interacting? Where, where is, you know, how are these pieces like tying together? Where is this disease coming from? And I think it's, you know, I've been lucky to shadow in it for a full month and really just see patients be happy, get, get healthier and then see this patient doctor report like really form. So that's what yeah, the Sherlock Holmes thing, the Sherlock Holmes thing was, was really cool. And thinking about, that's kind of what really appeals to a lot of folks, right? I mean, think about the show house. Why was that show so exciting? Because that's essentially what that guy was doing. I mean, is anybody who is in the medical profession knows that that's not really what, like medicine is, like that doesn't exist, but then wait a second, maybe does exist to some extent? Because that's what Dr. Patel is doing. Right. So that was pretty cool, that, you know, she talked about having a clean seat for each patient, not biasing herself from the previous records, not disregarding them. You go back and you look at the consult notes and all those things, but at the same time, you don't want to buy yourself because you want to do it right by patient. I thought that was really, really cool. It's hard to do, it's hard to do in today's system. But again, this is, goes back to our conversation with Dr. Simon Maibin as well. You know, how do we incorporate that? And Dr. Maibin had said that, hey, you, you kind of surround yourself around the teammates, right? And Dr. Patel kind of said something similar. She said she uses her ancillary staff, you know, whether there's other physicians, nutritionists, a mental health expert, but you surround yourself with those teammates and you learn humility that somebody else might be better served to care for this patient. Maybe they're more knowledgeable, maybe they just have more time. Maybe they have more resources, you know, whatever it is, again, you got to lean on that. Yeah. And she also mentioned now, IFM, right, integrative and functional medicine. There's like a huge forum. It's just such a large network of practitioners and you're essentially not doing it alone. Even though you may have your own practice, there's so many other doctors out there that you can reach out to because again, a lot of these times, these physicians as functional medicine physicians act as consultants also, almost. So a lot of the patients run around the healthcare system, can't find an answer and then they'll go to a Dr. Patel. And you know, that's putting Dr. Patel in a position that's one really cool, but also two, can it be kind of scary, you know, especially if you can't really figure out the answer. So you're never really doing it alone, but I just think it's such a phenomenal model, you know, and such a privilege that you can be put in that position as a functional medicine physician. Yeah. And, you know, kind of to follow up on that, just heard talking about the rat race and especially folks like us who are such type A individuals and we're all essentially chasing for perfection, but even beyond that, she used the word worthiness, right? And then she mentioned that again, you had mentioned maybe a different time to me, but how we need to have self-compassion, right? And she said that and it's this inner dialogue and the conversation that you have with yourself, it's so important, especially for us physicians and people in the healthcare fields because we are extremely hard on ourselves, you know, actually that's in nowadays with the state of the world, everybody's in a high stress environment, right? And it feels like we're being harder, harder on ourselves, where people are holding each other to, to such high, just holding each other accountable and things on social media. And it just, I don't want to use the word toxic, but it just gets really, really stressful. And we get to be our own greatest critics sometimes. And I'm guilty of this. And I look in the mirror and I'm like, this is the biggest critic. But again, self-compassion is something that I'm working on. Actually, I recently heard a podcast, Peter Tee actually had, Kristen Neff, she's a PhD, you heard that too. Yeah, she, it was really interesting conversation, I had to listen to it twice because she talked about the difference between self-esteem and self-compassion. And I encourage our listeners to go check that out, but essentially what she was saying, the self-esteem is not necessarily a good thing, right? Because there's lots of different ways for us to go ahead and get that self-esteem. It's very contingent upon our accomplishments, and therefore it's unstable. Self-compassion, it's much more helpful because there's three main components to it. It's a self-compassion, it's self-kindness, mindfulness, and connectedness with humanity. Mad love that. So without diving too much into it, and she gave some strategies to it, so hopefully people can go check that out and learn something from that. Yeah, especially in the US, Western culture, it's a go-go-go, right? It's thinking about the bear as Dr. Patel put it, and the bear is always putting us in that fight or flight, right? Our stress hormones are always high, our core is always running, our heart rate is always elevated, right? When we go to sleep, we either are thinking about what you did wrong that day or maybe something that you did well, hopefully, but then you're also thinking about the next day and the next month, there's never a time where you can just silence that monkey mind. But it's this bear that we're always seeing and we're always thinking about no matter where we are that's causing disease, causing inflammation, chronic inflammation, chronic pain, anxiety, and Dr. Patel is also a mindfulness, so she does what I'm sorry, what's it called? MBR? Mindfulness. Based stress reduction. Based stress reduction. That's what it is. Yeah. So how important do you think that really plays a role in the healthcare system? Yeah, dude. So do you remember, like, so her, when we asked how she counsels folks and give strategies, I love this. The example she talked about, you know, building stress resilience, this vessel of resilience, right? Yeah. And it's how can we expand this vessel of resilience because if you have, you know, if you have a cup and you put a teaspoon of salt in there, it's going to be pretty salty, right? But if you have a huge, like, tub, essentially. So let me ask you this because I know you're much better at this than I am. How do you kind of work on building that vessel of resilience? Yeah. For me, so I really believe in stoic philosophy, you know, and then the stoics really believe in the whole concept of memento-mori, remember your death, you know, and that can be a great thing in the sense that it pushes you to do a little bit more every day, but it also puts that reminder that, hey, whatever happens, it doesn't really matter. One day you're going to die, you know, and if you're not somebody who believes in reincarnation or, you know, whatever, I can put a lot of perspective into the small things that happen. And you know, one of my favorite quotes is, if it's not going to bother you in five years, don't worry about it for five minutes. So I think, you know, a lot of us just need to find kind of these outlets. For me, it's a lot of breath work, journaling, I think is super key, you know, I tell my wife this all the time that if every single human being can just journal, I really think we'd have such a peaceful world. They're getting your thoughts out, getting your feelings out, it just does so much good. And there's just so much emptiness you can now have in your mind and a good sense of emptiness where you can now start to get creative, you can start to connect with yourself a little bit more, you start to become compassionate towards other people. And you just like those small things go and you focus more on the bigger picture of life. When do you do that? Do you do the first thing in the morning? Yeah. So for me, usually at night, I'll go and I'll try journal mornings can be a little tough just because I'm waking up and I'm like, oh crap, gotta get to the hospital. So I'll usually do a meditation in the morning for like 25 minutes. People can check on my Instagram. I just did like what I do, like 15 minutes of breath work. I do a lot of Pranayama yoga, breath work, and then I'll do like a 10 minute silent meditation. But there's so many different things that people can do if they want to do guided meditation. There's binaural beats. There's silent meditation, transcendental, Sahaja yoga, chakra meditation. There's so many different things. And I think, again, people just need to experiment, see what they like, do different things. One of the most common things is, I know I'm stressed out, I know I should meditate. And there's a common saying that if you don't have the time to meditate once a day, you need to meditate twice a day. So, yeah, it just shows how busy we are, you know. And I think it's so important for us to give ourselves that time, to respect ourselves, and say, hey, I'm worthy of taking out 20 minutes of my time today. So I can focus on myself so I can reduce this stress response, or increase the stress response, the resilience, and reduce the stress. And again, it's a healthy lifestyle, preventing that anxiety, depression, inflammation, and what not. Yeah, such a good point. It's also interesting, because I don't have trouble calming my monkey mind at night time. What I'm trying to work on is getting the phone out of my room, because I will wake up, and I will flip up. Like, I will wake up, walk over to my phone, turn my alarm off, and check my email. You know what I mean? 100%. And I got it. And then all of a sudden, that's just dead smack, and you get hit in the face with the cold water. It's like, so that's something that I need to work on. But interestingly, yeah, you're talking to me when, if I don't, some days I'm better than others, but I'll do it first thing in the morning. And I use guided meditation, calm.com. I love them. No affiliations with them whatsoever. But, you know, I think that's one that I recommend. I've tried a couple of different ones. That's the one that I like. But I don't know for me. Sometimes I just even don't need to. Sometimes I'll just stand there, and as I'm drinking my coffee, I kind of just quiet, and I'll just stare. And I was just, I was just, yeah, I was just giving my way for a hard time this morning, because we had woken up, and it's just Sunday. I woke up a little bit later, but I was standing there just drinking my coffee. Just thinking, not even thinking, my mind was off, right? And that's what it was. I like it. And a sense that's being mindful or just kind of meditating. And then she was kind of working on this budgeting thing. And she's asking me questions. I was like, are you the one time I remember on the day that my mind is off. You got to ask me questions. So that was just funny. But, yeah, I think that's an important one too. And hopefully in the future, we'll have somebody here who can kind of talk more about MBSR. And, you know, just the difference, especially the difference between meditation and mindfulness. And what that means, actually, in that episode, Christen Africa talks about it. And even Peter Tia says that he, he didn't really appreciate the differences before. And, you know, she talks, she emphasizes mindfulness is much more actionable. It's more powerful. So hopefully people can check that out as well. Another thing I wanted to talk about, because this is, I think, arguably the most valuable thing we can do with physicians, is having empathy, right? And we were asking about how she models and how she imparts these lessons of being empathetic with your patient. Again, we talked about the clean slate, some of the way she does it. What stuck out to you there, anything in particular that you took away from that? Yeah, man. You actually said this during the episode saying, you know, the art of medicine isn't taught as much, right? And I just, I think, yeah, I think you're right. In the sense that it's not taught as much. Maybe, I think, right? I think there was a little bit more of a emphasis on physicians forming that relationship, how to form that relationship. And it's, I remember, you know, applying to medical school. It's something that we all think we need to run our personal statements, building that relationship. But then you really get into practice. And, you know, I tell a lot of people, medicines sometimes, you know, it might seem very selfless. I think it could also be a very selfish time, you know, as a resident for me. Yeah, I try to help the patient, but a lot of it, I'm just thinking about myself. I'm trying to think about what can I learn from this situation? What can I gain? How can I get out of here? How can I make my process so efficient so that I can get to the next patient? And, you know, Dr. Patel talking about how, you know, not being a rat race, having an hour to hour and a half with each patient. And just empathizing, understanding the story, listening, right? Listening is the key that she says. It's something that we often don't do. As doctors, we try to add value, right? I think we can add value by doing tests, doing procedures, or just talking and writing scripts. And sometimes the best way to add value to our patients is just by listening. And just by them getting what they need out. And again, in a functional medicine world where you're trying to look at different body systems and you're not necessarily just honing in on one thing, listening is the key to connecting the dots. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And I think that this is actually one thing that might... There's a few things. I want to say my medical student a pretty good job. That they gave us in one of our clinical, like teaching one of those classes, they gave us a humanistic score. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, you know, and you were actually ranked amongst your classmates and your humanistic level. Wow. So that was interesting. But yeah, I mean, you know, she's just talked about, you know, things that when residents come in or trainees come in, how she just tries to model. And she mentioned that we don't always have to be doctors, right? We can be human first. And in times when it's tough, and you know, we can relate with our patients. Because as again, physicians were humans first and at the base level, we're all the same. And we're not above any illness that they might suffer. It can happen to us. I mean, it happened to her, right? I've had personal injuries. So a lot of times when patients come in with shoulder stuff and they're like, oh, I can't play it. I'm not even an athlete. It's an individual who says, like, you know, I've had hip issues. I've had back issues. So I know what they're going through. But there's other folks who've gone through worse stuff, right? And it's unfortunate that a lot of time to have the empathy. It's like, or compassion. It's like, hey, man, you know, I've been there. It's hard to kind of be, to feel that way unless you actually have been there or your family members been there or something. You know, my mom got sick last year and she sees good now, but I just remember afterwards, at least. And now when I go see an elderly person, not that she's elderly, hopefully she's not listening to every mom. But, you know, I try to go listen to a, you know, I have a conversation with a person. And I'm like, okay, you know, how, how would a physician treat, you know, my dad or my mom, they're in the hospital, God forbid it. And so you try to do it that way. It's a strategy that works for me, but doesn't necessarily mean it's going to again, because I've seen my mom in there. You know what I mean? So that's not something I wish upon anybody, but that's something that I think we need to continuously work on. But you know what it kind of reminded me of when she talked about, hey, we're humans first. And at the base level, it reminded me of what Dave Otay said about, you know, at the base of it all. Yeah, we're all human, you know, we're all the same. And so again, just seeing so many common themes. Another one thing, we just quickly touched on MBSR and mindful based. And again, without diving too much into gut health, because that is something that's super popular now. I know that was one of your first passions as well. I heard the interplay between psychiatric illnesses or just psychology and gut health and mental health essentially. Any thoughts on that? Would you learn from her? Yeah, I mean, you know, this is again, G.I. was one of my first love. So, you know, for me, I'm all about gut health. And you know, I even told Dr. Patel, I could go down that rabbit hole. And we're going to get future guests, hopefully here soon. Where we can really talk about gut health, but just how important the gut is to all illness. Where we say what 90% of serotonin, 50% of dopamine, these neurotransmitters, this gut brain connection. You look at IBS, you look at a lot of these illnesses, dysbiosis, where your microbiome gets a little messed up out of order. How this can affect the rest of your body. So, you know, I know naturopaths, what they learn is if you're having like a tough time figuring out what to do, treat the gut. I guess that's the number one rule is treat the gut. So, yeah. Yeah. Now, dude, I agree. Yeah, again, she was talking about how the gut brain connection or like the brain is more gut brain than head brain, which again, if you pause and think about it, it does make sense. And I mean, so we know we're learning there's a ton of literature coming out on this. And again, we're still scratching the surface because we're looking at it from an immune response. You know, there's stuff about athletes and performance and exercise and it's relations that that's super early on. But I think the most robust data right there is in terms of mental health and immune response so far. We're going to find more stuff out on this as people have different interests who dive into it. But essentially, we know that plays a key role. And she also mentioned that people specifically asked her, you know, okay, all right, we know if the gut plays a role, then maybe we should take probiotics. That's like the logical solution. And that's a difficult one. And so when she had talked about that, I wanted to go look up see if there is anything actually did find this article, this meta-analysis on the antiolytic effects of probiotics. This was published in 2018 and I'll link a PubMed thing to in our show notes. But basically, in this study, they wanted to quantify the effects of probiotics on anxiety in both animals and humans. So I forget how many I think they had maybe 11 preclinical studies and nonclinical studies or something like that. And what they found was that probiotics had a significant median reduction on anxiety in animals, but a non significant small reduction in humans. So I mean, that's cool, but there's a couple issues that could happen with that, right? I mean, it could be dose response. How was anxiety measured when they looked at the animals and rats? They saw that it was primarily measured by their behavior patterns. Whereas in humans, it was measured with much more subjective, right? It could be strains of probiotics and stuff. So it's definitely interesting and intriguing. And she also talked to another one about this rat study where the rats had a fecal transplant and the rats who were much more sluggish and stuff after the transplant started becoming, you know, essentially more chipper. I couldn't find that specific paper, but what I did find was another essentially a systematic review on published this year in the psychiatry general. Essentially, this one, they hypothesized that techniques aimed at strengthening and repopulating the gut microbiome may be useful and prevention of treatment of psychiatric illnesses is what they found all of the studies in this systematic review had 21 studies. Every single one of them found that a decrease in impressive and anxiety like symptoms and behaviors resulting from transplantation of healthy microbiota, right? So this is fecal transplant, fecal microbiome transplants and individuals. You know what's also interesting though? The inverse was also discovered. So basically transmission or like when you did FMT, so transmission of depressive and anxiety like symptoms from the gut microbiome from psychiatric elders to healthy recipients. So that's pretty fascinating stuff. I mean, it's definitely suggested there's a causation there. I got a dive deeper into it and check this out, but we'll link it so people can kind of check that out. Yeah, I might. Yeah, I might be able to find you those links. So I'm reading fiber field right now by Dr. Will Bolswish who's a GI and he's he talks about all these studies in his book and he actually links them as well, like in the back of the book. So I'll check them out and see if I can send them over to you. Yeah, definitely. I can't wait. 100%. I can't. That's a book. Yeah, I refueled this new book. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. All right. So maybe I maybe we'll link that to I mean, I'll pick that up. I get my my to do to read list is getting longer. So I love it. That's good. That's good. That's good. Cool. So any any parting thoughts man that you had. Yeah. So you know, one of the questions I get and again, we talk about this. Well, no cardiologist on Instagram like told me functional medicines. Quackery, right? Because I commented on one of her things as well. What do you think about their straight of quackery? I was like, OK, well, I think that's a little little much. But when we talk about the evidence of functional medicine, you know, we kind of touched on why there might not be so much. And a lot of the evidence is anecdotal, right? We see patients tell us they get better. And sure, a lot of these functional medicine doctors do practice evidence based medicine. They'll get stool samples. They'll put you on a protocol. They'll get the after results of that stool sample. Show you the difference. They'll get your vitamin levels vitamin D or something. But you want to protocol vitamin D supplementation. Do a lab test six months later. Oh, look, it increased. Tell me how you feel. You feel better. Well, there you go. But why is it that, you know, a lot of the research, a lot of the functional medicine things we're looking at supplements, all that type of stuff. It wasn't well researched. Yeah, no, so, you know, it's interesting that you bring that up. I actually, we were talking about Jason Fung at a different point. And Jason Fung and Peter T had kind of had this conversation a little bit. And I encourage people to go check that out. The first part, which is maybe the first 10 minutes of that conversation. They're talking about evidence based medicine versus essentially what Peter T had called evidence informed medicine. And what we know in that that might be a better term. And they both talked about how in physics and the physical sciences, they move at light speed versus biological sciences of kind of super, super slow. And essentially what they were saying in a nutshell is that a lot of these evidence based medicine, what happens is somebody has a theory. And it's not necessarily looking out for what the best practices are, but they're just looking for consensus. Right. We're looking for systematic reviews. You're trying to then you're trying to replicate it. But where's the evidence? Where's the evidence? Where's the evidence? Where's the evidence? And I remember Jason Fung saying that, hey, I don't really care. You know, I look at my patients and it, you know, is it working? And so I just think that that that dialogue was actually pretty interesting. And you know, we you and I've talked about this offline. I consider myself to be an academic and I've really grew, grew in affinity towards research and actually quote unquote EBM. But I look at it as evidence based medicine from the triad. Right. Again, we talked about what the literature supports against systematic reads, meta analyses. Those are all nice. That's the top of the pyramid. Again, the patients own values, their own beliefs. That's super important as well. And then the physicians, expertise and experience as well. Right. And a total evidence. To me, it's not quote unquote great quality evidence in the traditional sense, but it's still evidence. And this is another thing that the folks in wild health are doing a really good job with your name is Matt Dawson and Mike forget his last name, but but what they do is they talk a lot about they're very well informed when it comes to the evidence, but they take every single individual. And they will cater whatever it is at the treatment, the treatment protocol to that person. Right. So for instance, their story, I encourage people to go check it out. Basically, these are two ER docs that were in the same residency. I forget I think somewhere you tore Montana. And they were essentially, excuse me, living the same life, same more hours, training the same doing everything the same, but what they were learning was they were responding differently to different stimuli, right, especially diets. And so like they went back to their look at their genetic code and saw that they had different steps. One person responds better to acute genetic diet person, the person responds better to a low carb diet and looking at their blood markers and all those types of things. And so they talk about how when you look at the data, when you look at the recommendations, the guidelines and EBM, it's actually it should be the way that they're delivered is so it's for 60% of the population. It's not for the person sitting in front of you. Right. And that's such a key point to understand. Like when you're treating the person in front of you, yes, it's important to be informed of what the what is the literature show, what are the recommendations, what is the position statement, but then also what's this person in front of me, do they follow that, right, a study that's done in obese white females is not applicable to, you know, a high performance African American male of NFL player, right. That's that's not. So again, I kind of use an extreme example there, but I get that's such a contested point. So I don't think we're going to win anybody over on that, but I do think that, you know, people should have a little bit more of an open mind. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, you know what it is. So ultimately, yeah, I just want to say that the unfortunate part is there are folks, there are folks who maybe are doing it for the wrong reasons. And all you need is one bad apple, right, to kind of root for the batch. And that's why it's so important that this reminds me of another conversation. Another one of my mentors who said the only way to combat bad information is good information. I like it. And that's what we're trying to do here, man. Absolutely. Yep. Sweet, man. So another episode here, things that we learned with Dr. Jody Patel, guys, check out the original two for more tips and tricks. She breaks down different supplements. You can do different nutrients that might be key during this COVID pandemic, as well as flu season. So definitely check out the original episode. Let us know what you think. We're open to any feedback as well. So definitely let us know. Before we go, just a reminder to reach out to John McCarthy and the team at Physician Tax Advisors before you set out to handle your taxes this year. Taxes are complicated enough. So leave it to the professionals. Go to Drpodcastnetwork.com forward slash CPA to get help today. And just a reminder, everything in this podcast is for general information only. It does not constitute the practice of medicine. And we are not providing medical advice. No physician, patient, relationship is formed. And anything discussed in this podcast does not represent the views of our employers. We recommend that you see the guidance of your personal physician or coach regarding any specific health related issues. 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