69. Building a Successful Brand & Winning Social Media | Brian Sutterer, MD

Hello everyone, I'm Dr. Darsha, and I'm Dr. Altamash Raja, and welcome to Medicine Redefined. A podcast where we will explore the often overlooked but necessary components of health, what we consider to be the fundamentals. We will investigate topics and practices that can give you and your patients the best chance to optimize a healthy lifestyle. It's time to move the needle forward and put the health back in healthcare. Before we get to today's episode, I want to take this time to talk you all about learning medical Spanish. Now, if you're a healthcare worker, you already know what an asset it can be to have Spanish in your toolbox. There's no need to call the glitchy translator line or pull out Google Translate on your phone or find that one colleague who is fluent. It makes for more comfortable and authentic encounters with your Spanish-speaking patients. Now while I may be able to get by with just 4 years of Spanish in high school, I want to be able to truly connect with my Spanish-speaking patients to let them know that I am able to communicate in their natural tongue. Now this is where my friends at Common Ground International come in. They have been teaching medical Spanish to healthcare students and healthcare professionals since 2003. Their mission is to impact communities through language. Now twice a year Common Ground International offers a free 10-day masterclass that helps you take a medical history and perform a physical exam in Spanish. Not only that, but you're going to walk away with a customized learning plan to improve your medical Spanish over the next six months. And that's not all. After you complete the medical Spanish masterclass with Common Ground, you'll earn 4 free CME Category 1 credits. They only offer this masterclass twice a year and the next one is coming up very soon on Friday, August 26th, so make sure to mark your calendars. If improving your medical Spanish is one of your goals, and it doesn't matter if you're a beginner, intermediate like me, or advanced, you need to join Common Ground Medical Spanish Masterclass. You can get all the info of dates and scheduling on their website at www.comangroundinternational.com 4-slash masterclass. Hope to learn Spanish with you. Our guest today is Dr. Brian Sutter. Brian is a fellow sports medicine physician who acquired his medical degree from Indiana University. He continued his training at the Mayo Clinic where he completed a residency and physical medicine rehabilitation followed by a sports medicine fellowship also in Rochester, Minnesota. You might know Brian from his awesome YouTube channel where he breaks down current sports medicine topics specifically injuries in detail. Over the past five years, Brian has done a tremendous job cultivating a skill and creating a brand while providing exceptional value through his channel. So we wanted to bring Brian on to discuss a lot of things pertaining to the art of that practice. Not the one in the clinics or the sidelines, rather the one he has done an amazing job at behind the camera. Some of the things we touch on in this episode include Brian's background and Journey into Medicine, specifically sports medicine. The genesis of his YouTube channel, which as I said, is one of the best educational resources for learning all things sports medicine. The topic of new medicine in reference to the exponential rise of medical social media. We talk about playing the game but staying true to our core principles. Brian's learning process when he's curious about a topic and we also discuss the business side with the revenue generation in particular because I know that's a question that comes up early and often for healthcare providers. When we're considering any opportunity cost of working on this craft, one that we're not trained for, there is a ton of amazing info packed in here. So let's get to it. All right, everyone. Welcome back to Medicine Redefined. We got a special guest with us, Dr. Brian Southerer. Brian, how are you doing today? I'm doing great. It's great to talk with you guys. It's busy wrapping up the NFL ship here. We're talking offline before this. I've got a week maybe left of being a fellow and then it's finally done with training. I'm looking forward to that. Thanks so much for coming on here. I'll think a lot of the audience, they may have heard your name, especially if they're sports fanatics and they're watching their favorite player. Michael down with a crazy injury and they're going to wonder how long is this player going to be out? What's going on? Is my fantasy hopes down the drain? They're going to go on YouTube and they might find you because that's what you do. You analyze injuries and you do it in such an awesome way. But let's start back from your journey. You went to med school, you went through PM and are just like all touch and eye and it's for some medicine fellowship like he said. Take us back. How did it all start? What got you interested? Man, so I had a very circuitous non-traditional path to where I am now. I actually started college with no plan of becoming a doctor. My engineering is my background so I studied mechanical engineering for my undergraduate degree and it was maybe halfway through where I sort of was like, gosh, I don't really enjoy the engineering jobs that I had done for internships and we were required to take an anatomy and physiology course and I basically took it as a science elective and thought I'll just see how this is and found it super interesting and I started to see the human body as a machine. It's a machine just like a plane engine, a car engine, whatever, it's just instead of it being something that doesn't talk and walk and have feelings. For medicine, it was a living breathing person that you could really make a difference for. But just after taking that class, I just really became interested in learning about the biomechanics, the physiology and saw doctors as engineers basically who take care of people instead of taking care of things, you know, these inanimate objects. And so I was initially planning on doing orthopedic surgery. There's actually a pretty high number of orthopedic surgeons who studied engineering as their background and started medical school like full bore, I'm going to be an orthopedic surgeon, had a bit of a detour. I did not get into medical school the first year that I applied and so I ended up going back and doing a master's degree in biomedical engineering, got into medical school, realized I did not like orthopedic surgery. And then I remember I actually googled like, what is the best kept secret in terms of medical fields because I was like, I didn't know what else to do. As soon as I realized I didn't want to be an orthopedic surgeon and I was like, I have no idea like what else I want to do in the medical field. But I figured there had to be something out there that was interesting and that I would enjoy. And I found some student doctor network forum that was about PM and R and I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool, like it's a pretty good lifestyle, I can still do sports medicine. And so that's kind of how I ended up going down the PM and R route and always knew I wanted to do sports medicine from the start, it was just a matter of kind of getting there through physical medicine and rehab. So very kind of nontraditional path, but it all worked out pretty well on hindsight. Gotcha. Yeah, absolutely. And so you knew sports kind of early on then or was it because you didn't want to go to the orthopedic route that you thought, okay, I had to do something with sports? Yeah, I think even if I would have stayed and done orthopedic surgery, I would have probably wanted to do a sports fellowship. I mean, I played sports when I was in high school. I had tons of injuries that I had to have surgery for. And so I always just was really a big sports fan and knew I kind of wanted to be around that community, which is also kind of part of how I, you know, eventually incorporated my YouTube side of things. So I knew I always wanted to do sports. It was just a matter of finding the pathway to get there of PM and R after thinking it was going to be orthopedic. Right. Yeah. And for the listeners out there, I think a lot of people who are going to associate sports medicine with PM and R, but that's not always the case where you can go down the family medicine route. You can go down the emergency medicine route. So was it really just the specific training that you wanted that took you down physical medicine rehab, rather than let's say family medicine? Yeah, I knew I did not want to do primary care. Like the last thing I wanted to do was, you know, like be doing diabetes checks and being a hospitalist and like delivering babies. Like I wanted nothing to do with that whole world of medicine. You know, I liked the sort of functional approach that PM and R took in terms of we're going to look at the body as a whole. We're going to talk about function, you know, it felt very in line with what I thought as an engineer. You know, there's a lot of opportunities in PM and R to solve problems to look at a complex issue and, you know, have to critically think and develop a treatment strategy or develop some new adaptive device. And so I think the field's mentality fit really well with what I wanted to do. Going forward into sports medicine, you know, I think a lot of the future of sports medicine as you guys probably know is very procedure heavy. It's a lot of kind of minimally invasive kind of ultrasound guided procedures. It's orthobiologics. It's a lot of stuff that I think relies on having good like hand eye coordination, good procedural skills. And I think of all the paths that you can go through to get to sports medicine. PM and R gives you the best set of procedural skills to get there. You know, you're not going to get the primary care sports medicine stuff, obviously doing family med. But personally, I didn't want to focus on that as much as I wanted to be able to have those tools in my tool belt of doing the ultrasound guided interventions. And so PM and R felt like a good route for that too. Man, here in your story, it's close to my heart because I had very much the similar story, right? I was lucky enough that I think very my first month in medical school, our dean of the time or intern dean of the time was a physiatrist in sports medicine training. And so we had this like osteoblast, we called it, but it was like clubs to different specialties. And that's where I learned about it. And I was like, man, this I can do non-surgical musculoskeletal medicine. And that's the path for me. When was it that you googled that on SDN? Was it 30 or 30 or 30 or medical school? What was it early on? Let's see. I want to say it was like early third year of medical school because part of part of the whole not doing orthopedic surgery thing, I didn't do as well on step one as I thought I needed to do. And so it was like, boy, I didn't do as well on step one. I don't really like being in the OR. I've got to kind of figure something else out. And so it was kind of, I think that I can't even remember like when you take step one anymore. I've intentionally just blocked that entirely out of my memory. But I think it was like early on in third years, we were getting ready to start clerkships. I mean, I know I didn't have any like research in PM and R obviously and didn't do any of my rotations until like the end of fourth year. So I kind of came into it later than, well, I mean, a lot of people I guess come into it kind of late in the game compared to other specialties. Yeah. And it's funny you talk about how is the best get secret. I tell medical students now, and I'm like, it's no longer a secret, you know, it's that fastest growing specialty. And it's arguably one of the most competitive like the match rate is nearly 100% if not 100% for the last several years. And then the scores, like I remember our fourth year where I was heavily involved in the interview process. And you know, the scores that were coming in, they were really, really, really good scores that you would think traditionally in one of those in terms or ortho or neurosurgery specialty. So it is interesting how it's involved and it's going to continue to evolve for a lot of attention because you can't treat it like a backup, right? You know, I think a lot of people 10 years ago, they saw it as a backup, you know, to orthopedics or to something else. And when people ask me like, you can't treat it like a backup, you've got to give it the, you know, the proper credit that it deserves is being a really competitive field, for sure. It's the opposite. It's the opposite now, right? You actually have to have a backup if you're applying PmNR. I think the match rate... That's true. That's true. I think you're now PmNR has to be your primary with a different backup. It was like 30% I think this previous year, it was absolutely insane. Wow. So you mentioned you played a lot of sports, had a lot of injuries. What sports did you play? I played tennis primarily. My favorite sport was basketball. So I grew up in Indiana. I mean, back in Indiana, everybody's basketball is king. You know, Friday nights, the gym, the movie Hoosiers, basketball's where it's at in Indiana. We actually, it's kind of funny. Now up here in Minnesota, for residency and fellowship, I cover a lot of hockey. And before moving up here, I had never even been to a hockey game in my life. And now I like, I look back and, you know, hockey's been one of my favorite sports to cover and kind of learn about. And I finally, I think understand the rules of hockey, but basketball was my favorite sport to play. I started my freshman year of high school playing basketball and was super scrawny kid. Like I could shoot the ball, but I was not an athlete by any stretch of the imagination. Like I wasn't fast. I couldn't jump. I couldn't play defense. I could shoot really well. But when you have like people guarding you, you know, and you have to guard the other team that doesn't work too well. So I stopped basketball after freshman year and then started playing tennis. And so tennis was my main sport throughout the rest of high school. I actually was hoping to play in college, I went to division three engineering school and was going to play tennis, but I'm having Tommy John surgery. So I somehow managed to tear my UCL, like, kind of just insidiously over the course of tennis. I think the way that I was serving. And so I had Tommy John surgery, like early in my freshman year of college. And since then, like, don't really play much tennis anymore at this point. I play like golf a lot. That's kind of I'm like transitioning to that phase where like I'm old and don't want to play like contact explosive sports because I'm afraid I'm going to tear my Achilles. They're like, you know, my ACL or something. So little running, a little weightlifting, a little bit of golf, and that's kind of my happy place now. It's fun. You ring that up. Darsh is a tennis player too. And I'm picking up tennis. I bought myself a racquet this year, bought my some tennis shoes and I'm really excited. It's really tough now because and Darsh, you probably remember this as well. Like, I mean, I wasn't elite when I was in high school, but I mean, I was pretty good. And it's almost like hard to find people to play with us because like the people that want to go play just like dink the ball back and forth. Right. And I'm like, I mean, it's not really fun for me to have to stoop down to like, dink it back. And you guys want me to play hard, but it's not fun for me, buddy. Yeah, I told you. And so I, it's hard to find people to play with. And so that's part of the reason why I kind of like stopped playing it so much. Yeah. Yeah. I think I got really fortunate. The gym that I go to, they have a tennis court and there's a coach. So like, you know, it gives classes and there's various levels of people with expertise. Some were extremely, you know, really well, good athletes and others are kind of just beginner. So just kind of trying to dive in there and just get a good workout. You, the other thing, so you talked about injuries, did you have any catastrophic injury other than the UCL? Was you're like an ACL tear, broken bone, something that was like, okay, this is a wrap. Thankfully, no, I've never broken a bone in my life, a fun little fact. I had had, you know, I had had some ankle surgery. I had like some ankle impingement and so I had to undergo surgery for some ankle impingement. I had a hernia, like in high school that I had to have surgery for. So for the most part, I stayed pretty healthy. I sense, and now that person who like dislocates their shoulder when they just like fall on the ground, and so that's about the most recent traumatic thing that's happened to me. But thankfully, I never had to experience like, you know, when my UCL was injured, it wasn't like I threw a pitch and like felt a pop and said, oh my gosh, my season's over. You know, it was kind of more of this progressive sort of thing. And so that's something it's, you know, we see that all the time right in sports, these like sudden big traumatic types of things and it's hard because I've been on the side of recovering from a big surgery in terms of, you know, not like I remember with my UCL surgery, one of the hardest things was like going to the bathroom, right? Like you don't even think about like what you're going to do when you've got your arm, like locked in this brace. And so you kind of experienced that side of it, but thankfully I never had like the big sudden kind of traumatic thing to deal with. Yeah, speaking of injuries and let's let's talk about your YouTube, right? Can you just take us through kind of the premise of it and then the inception of it, kind of how you got started? So it's pretty much, it's educational based, you know, I think my whole goal with the channel is I like teaching and I think sports provide a great opportunity for people to become engaged and interested in learning who otherwise might not really have that same motivation to learn about stuff. And so if you can find specific examples that people can relate to, it makes learning more fun, it makes it more relevant and I think people retain it better. And so, you know, we've all been there like watching on TV, watching a sporting event and like something happens and, you know, it's like a high ankle sprain and the announcers are like, well, he's he's grabbing up high. So it must be one of those high ankle sprains, you know, and you hear these things, you're just like, ah, like that's it's like not at all what's going on. And so I saw it as just a nice opportunity initially to kind of merge to my passions. One that I really like teaching and another that I like being just really deeply involved in the sports world. I actually initially started the channel with more of just a medical sort of vlog perspective. And so there's still I think there's some PM and our videos out there on the channel just from way back in the day where I was just, you know, Dan the life of a PM and our resident, you know, kind of talking about the specialty. And the plan was always to sort of try to incorporate the sports videos. And I thought that it would be a struggle to incorporate the sports videos. Like my fear was that I'd build up this audience from the medical following and then they wouldn't be excited whenever I like put a sports video in their subscription feed. And I remember like the first video I did it was about a basketball player who, you know, Tweet comes out on ESPN Sports Center and so and so diagnosed with thoracic outlet syndrome. Like you see all these comments and replies like, what the heck is this? You know, people pasting Wikipedia links. And so I thought this is it. Like this is the perfect opportunity to see if this works. And the video did so well in the first 24 hours that I actually took it down because I was afraid of like, oh my gosh, did I say something? Like, am I going to get in trouble? Like my residency program? Like I was not at all expecting like 50,000 people to watch this in the span of like 24 hours. And then kind of like once the dust settled, I realized I hadn't said anything bad. Like it was okay. I realized like people like this, like people are actually interested in learning about these things and seeing pictures and seeing visuals and kind of incorporating what they're watching on TV. And it really surprised me at first like how much people truly want to learn. I mean, you always think like, well, it's interesting to me, but surely other people don't give a darn about like high ankle sprains. But in reality, people do. People think the stuff is interesting. And so I just kind of totally changed directions and went with the sports videos. And I guess kind of the rest is history. People loved it and quickly got a pretty nice audience. And it's been great. It's been a really fun way to interact with the sports community, do something a little bit different, and also just kind of build up the skills of, you know, creating a, like it's a business basically at this point. And it's something I've had to learn how to do the audio, do the video, kind of be a, you know, set designer and everything like that. And so it's helped build a lot of other just professional, personal skills along the way. And that was what 2017, that was 20, let's see, 2018. I think was when I very first began the channel. And I hit, actually, it just like popped up in my, in my memories feed today. I hit 100,000 subscribers three years ago. So I think I had, you know, like the first year of my channel, when it was just the, the medical videos I had like 200 followers. And it was probably all like my friends and family. And then like once I kind of started doing the sports videos, like in that first year, grew quite a bit and then kind of steady since then. So yeah, it's been, I think it's been three years, four years since I've been doing the sports content. Yeah. And I mean, dude, it's really impressive. I mean, I was checking earlier today. I think you're about to hit that 600,000. Yeah. I'm sure any day now. So that's, that's quite a feat, right? And, you know, since then, I mean, people follow, you know, YouTube used to be a big thing. It still is a big thing for a lot of people. But, you know, now it's expanding to TikTok. You know, social media, we have Twitter, we've got Instagram, we've got all these other avenues where people can communicate. And it's kind of what I'm calling this thing as new medicine, right? I take that because we're coming off the finals. And, you know, I heard Dream on Green. New media. Yeah, talking about the new media. And so I'm calling this the new medicine. That's what we're, we're talking about, right? We're, we're, we're, we have podcasts here. You've got your own podcasts. People are on, again, all these different mediums communicating with people. And prior to that, actually, blogs, you mentioned. So others that come to mind, white code investor, Jim Dolly, you're right, passive, income MD. And often these mediums can help physicians not only communicate, provide awesome information, but also generate revenue that sometimes far exceeds our primary jobs. I put that in quotes where people think you've got the stethoscope on. You got the white code on. You're in the clinic. And, and it's not so much that anymore. And so, you know, I kind of want to get your thoughts into what you think this quote unquote new medicine, this term that I've coined right now. It is. And, and what that looks like in the future for physicians, you know, aspiring physicians who are who are maybe thinking that, hey, I'm going to practice medicine. And I don't even know what that means anymore. Yeah, boy, that's a, that's a fantastic question. And it's really been an interesting space to observe. And take part in, you know, I personally don't, I use Twitter if that's really my only other social media outlet. Like, I don't use Facebook. I have an Instagram account and just because a lot of my video ideas and content come from people like tagging me and stuff and pointing out, you know, hey, the story, this thing happened. And so I use it more to get information. But like, I don't, I'm not on TikTok. I'm not on Snapchat. I don't post on Instagram. But I sort of have observed like what's going on in that space enough. And it's, it's been really interesting because I think you have, there's almost like two different groups of people in that space. There's people who are I think trying to truly do like educational professional advancement types of things like this podcast. And then there's people who are like almost just doing it for like the entertainment and like the clout for lack of a better word. I mean, there, there's so many people nowadays who are just like posting these, you know, ridiculous like reaction videos on TikTok. And it's like, Dr. reacts to this. And it's like a five-second like clip of something that's like not even a thing. And like that has sort of gotten wrapped up in this world of like medical social media. When in my opinion, like it's like doesn't belong and like that same category, like, and so it's just, it's been a really interesting space to observe because you've got the people who are truly like on Twitter sharing journal articles and and sharing cases and like building this professional presence. And then you've got this whole other world of like TikTokers and like dentists and chiropractors and people on TikTok that are just like sharing videos of pimples getting popped. And like that's what's counting is like medical social media. So it's it's a weird space. And it's something that I'm curious to see how it evolves because I see a lot of people feeling like they have to get into that like click baby, eye grabbing, boost your numbers world of like the TikTok side of things. And even now we're seeing it on YouTube because YouTube is switching to like these YouTube shorts. And so there's this huge pressure now on YouTube that like if you don't post these little five second, 10 second, like reaction click baby, shock factor types of things, you kind of get lost. And like the algorithm doesn't pick you up anymore. And and so it's been a hard area to almost navigate because I haven't, I don't want to get involved in any of that side of things, but it's popular. Like there's no doubt. I mean, people have built up millions of subscriber followings on both of these platforms by just kind of having that model. And and I don't know if I don't know how we really interpret that how we, you know, find that place in this world. And then you've got people like Dr. Glockham like in here putting out this absolutely hilarious, fantastic like satirical comedy. Yeah. And that's in like a whole other camp of things. And so, you know, I think it's something that we as physicians like have to embrace and realize that it's not like a one size fits all type of thing. You know, oftentimes people will come to me like our, one of our departments for residency. You know, they come to you and they're like, well, help us grow on social media. Like we want to establish a social media presence. And you can't force it, you know, I think a lot of people feel like because this is the direction of medicine, like they have to force themselves to do all these things like, oh my gosh, I gotta get a Twitter account and I've gotta get a TikTok and I've gotta do this. And they don't have the right motivation for it. And so they crash and burn and just get a bad impression of it. And so I think people realizing where they fit in to that whole social media world, even if it's just being a passive observer. I mean, one of the best things I think with Twitter is, like you don't have to tweet a darn thing. Like you can just follow 100 sports medicine doctors and see the cases they share, see the articles they tweet and learn a ton. And you're still engaging in social media. You don't have to be, you know, putting stuff out there. You can be consuming stuff. And so it's gonna be really interesting over the next, you know, a few years because you've got the push of like the medical field that realizes it needs to get involved in social media. But then you have sort of the younger up and coming generation who has grown up in social media and see social media as like a fame building sort of place. And like how those two are gonna come together, I think is gonna be really interesting to see over like the next couple of years. It's interesting that you bring that up, right? I think that to your point, you know, part of the reason you started, part of the reason we started is to really provide value and provide education, right, for the listener. And at the same time, I think in order to do that and really make a difference, really make a dent, you do have to grow that following, right? You have to play the game. You have to play the game. Right, you gotta play the game exactly. And so, you know, it's a challenge balancing, playing that balancing act, right? Because I'll be honest, one of the consistent feedbacks that we've gotten is that sometimes our episodes are just too long, right? We've had episodes that are 40 minutes and we've had episodes that are two hours. And some of those two hour behemoth ones is because we discuss complex topics. We're talking about nutrition. We're talking about, you know, how to incorporate healthy lifestyle. And these aren't things that we can communicate in the five minutes. I mean, if we could, we'd be doing a disservice to it. Right. And so selfishly, what I'll ask you is, like, how do you balance that, right? Like, how do you play the game, yet still honor and educate appropriately? It's really hard. And I've been tempted so many times to find some, you know, like, when the, do you guys remember when the, the crate challenge thing was going on around social media where people were like stacking the milk crates and like trying to walk to the top and then walk down? Like, it would have been so easy to just take one of those, like, put it behind me on a green screen and just doctor reacts to, you know, milk challenge fails. And it probably would have gotten like, thousands of views and clicks. But it's like, that's, that's not me. And so personally, I try to think about like, my own reasons for doing it. I'll tell you the area, though, where I, where you have to play the game is, you know, people always, my, like, professors give me a hard time for like my YouTube thumbnails, right? Like, I will totally admit that when I make a YouTube thumbnail, I'm trying to have the time find some stupid, like, shocked face that I'm making, or I'm trying to find like a thumbnail that is going to grab somebody's attention. You know, if I make a very professional, very, um, doctory thumbnail about some injury, nobody's going to click on it. But if I make a thumbnail that's like, doctor reacts and it's my face and I'm like, you know, making somewhere in motion, like, people are going to click it. And, and that's the goal is for people to click it so that they can see your information. And so I think there's things like that that you have to do, right? You know, there's, there's ways you have to word things in your titles to grab people's attention. But I think as long as like the actual material itself is with good intention and with good purpose, to me, that makes it okay, you know, it's, um, but it's definitely a game you have to play. I mean, there's no doubt that I would have very different success. I think on my channel if I had a different approach to thumbnails and video titles. And oftentimes I'll think, well, this is a really interesting topic to discuss, but there's not a good thumbnail out there. Like there's no picture, there's no injury event, there's no anything that like I can use to draw people in so that I can tell them about that topic. Like I almost feel like I have to trick people into learning. Like, like here you are, here's this, here's this replay, this clip of this thing that happened. You're going to watch it because you're interested in that, but now I've got your attention so that I can teach you about it. Right. And, and it's kind of that, you're right, it is a game you have to play. And it's really easy to, to fall on one side or another. And, um, it's hard, you know, I've got the benefit of now I have a good enough size audience and following that I don't feel that pressure to grow anymore. And when I first started, nobody else was doing this. And so I, I was sort of the only person in the space that was doing this kind of content. And so I had that benefit as well. And it's hard now, right? There's so many people in the space that you have to, like people feel this pressure to stand out by doing these very over the top, you know, overblown productions to try to get people's attention. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think we live in a world where you might have half a second to get someone's attention, draw them in so that you can provide that value. I mean, you're looking at TikTok, Instagram adopted, what TikTok's doing, and now you have YouTube shorts coming out. So, I mean, everything is moving towards a smaller and smaller attention span, right? And so one of those things that scares me, again, like I said, is walking that fine line, right? And I think first mover's advantage is actually a huge advantage, you know, especially for YouTube, right? Because you, you had the following where you don't feel that pressure. And now people who are later late to that game, they're gonna feel that pressure to, oh man, I gotta do something crazy, something that's not authentic. And again, I think authenticity will always win out, right? If you listen to Gary B, I mean, that's what he's talking about all the time. So, going back from when you started to now, what are the things that you've learned along the way? How have you made your content better, maybe your morals, you know, in terms of looking at social media, a little more defined? What are those things? I've definitely become more set in kind of those morals, kind of my own personal professionalism with, you know, things I'll talk about, things I won't talk about. For example, I don't talk about any fantasy sports content, because I feel personally pretty strongly that it's very improper for medical providers to be giving gambling advice, basically. Is what it comes down to, right? I mean, I personally feel like I have no legitimate right to sit there and say, well, this person is a health grade A, and this person is a health grade C, and therefore you should not gamble $5,000 on this game because of this. To me, that just feels very wrong, and that's a personal opinion. You know, I understand people who do that, and it's just a personal thing for me, and so I've become almost more set in that over the years, because I just feel more like that staying true to what my purpose is on doing this. Honestly, a lot of the stuff I've learned professionally is just the importance of knowing like everything you say can be used against you in this social media world. You know, both good and bad. I mean, I've had some examples of times where I've kind of been a little bit more of a sports fan. And stuff I've said, especially like on Twitter, like in interviews, as opposed to being that professional doctor face, and people interpret what you say as a fan as you saying something as a physician. And that's not usually like the context in which you want things to be interpreted. And so I've learned that over the years that truly like even this podcast, you know, even if you guys are only having 100, a thousand, whatever it is people that listen to it, theoretically anything that we say, somebody could find and somebody could share to the world and then the world sees it. And so going into all this stuff on social media, realizing that it doesn't matter how small you think your following might be, people can see it. And so I think having that notion beforehand really gives you that sense of responsibility of being professional and saying the right things and just conducting your business in a way that you would want your patients to know or you'd want your parents to know. I've learned a ton about just like audio and video, which has honestly been one of my favorite things of doing all this like camera setup and lighting. You know, I've got probably like seven or eight lights in my office right now that's my studio and camera lenses and editing videos and sound quality and like making the process efficient. I mean, when I first started it took me four or five hours to do a video and now it's like 30 minutes to give a video out just because I've like really honed down the speed of things. And so that's been a really nice benefit too is just developing this whole skill set beyond just kind of the product itself. I'm glad you brought up that the idea of just getting somebody on the hook right when you've reeled them in. I remember you mentioned on maybe another episode of some other show that you were on that often you'll see people in the comments talking about, hey, I didn't really come here to learn. I just want to know what's going on. You're like, yes, you know, I've got somebody and I found that to be really, really funny. And you talk about how you think that people are generally curious and they actually enjoy learning. So I want to talk a little bit about about your learning process. You know, I'd like to know what it is that feeds your curiosity, right? Outside of just sports medicine. We know you're passionate about that. We've talked a little bit about that. And then what's your process for learning something? Like investigating, going deep into a topic. Maybe it could be sports medicine related. When you got your boards coming up, but even outside that stuff. So I think it all for me goes back to my engineering brain. Like I still feel like I'm an engineer who became a doctor rather than like, I'm a doctor who used to be an engineer. And so going back to my whole childhood, I mean, I was the kid who was like taking apart the VCR. I was, you know, making the guitar with the clean Xbox. I remember there was a TV show. You guys are kind of similar age. You might remember, there was a TV show on Nickelodeon called Figure It Out. And I don't know if you guys remember the show or not. But it was like this game show and these people would come on who had like had these crazy weird inventions or done these things. And the panelists of like, Keenan and Kell, like those types of people had to guess like what the person had done. And I remember I was like 10 years old. And I drew up these plans for like a cat elevator that I was going to like install in my house to like, let my cat go from like one floor to the other. And I was like 10 years old doing this. And so I've always just been very curious about like how things work and what is going on with something. And so I think that's what drives a lot of my just innate curiosity and like drive to learn is just that sense of being curious. You know, having a question that I just want to answer. And you know, I'm kind of a like brute force type of person when it comes to learning. You know, I've never been the type to like take really tedious notes and like keep a calendar and like checklists. I kind of just start consuming things. And so, you know, when I was trying to, for example, learn like how to light for a YouTube video, I just literally like go to Google like how to light for a YouTube video. And then I just watch like every single video that I can find to just consume all of the information that's out there. I think one is sort of the fundamental principles of engineering is that the first step to solving any problem is you have to like collect the information and like figure out what you know. And it's like medicine too, right? Like you have to get all the information. And so when I'm curious when I want to learn something, my brain just goes to, okay, I've got to get all of the information. And oftentimes for me, that's honestly like YouTube videos when it comes to learning things outside of medicine. I went through a phase this year where I spent way too many hours trying to learn like some basic Python programming because I was trying to figure out like if I could like scrape some NBA statistics from like the NBA stats page to like incorporate into some of my videos. And so I probably spent like 30 hours like watching YouTube videos trying to figure out how to type like basic Python code. And then I realized it was not going to go anywhere productive. And like, okay, I need to like devote my brain power to something else. And so that's often the place I go is honestly YouTube. Like when I'm trying to learn something outside of medicine. Otherwise, you know, when I'm trying to like learn medical topics, probably like most of us do, I have an app that I use that I have like keywords kind of organized. It's called read by QXMD. If anybody hasn't heard of it, I can't believe the app is free. It's absolutely fantastic. So that's how I kind of try to learn like medical stuff is all just keywords topics and then just kind of see what's out there. I've never really thought too much about like my specific, you know, style of learning. I just go to the internet and like type in what I'm curious about and consume everything that comes my way and try to filter it all out. I love that though, right? Because I think as you're saying this, I can see like that's your strength. Your strength is understanding how you learn best, right? And going through that engineering mind of you or saying, what can I do to get that biggest return on investment, right? So even when you're thinking about your cat, you're really thinking, how do I get this cat from the first to the second floor, right? I don't, it might not have been about even building the thing. It was more about how do I focus on the cat and then as a byproduct, I'm going to learn on my own. And it's just something that I was thinking about today in terms of, you know, how do we become more competent, right? And I think no matter what our strengths are, the information is out there, especially in today's world, right? For me, I love to read. My thing is reading. But I'm thinking, how can I become a better reader? So I actually just bought a speed reading class, right? Because now it means I can double down on my strength and apply that knowledge. And then once you have that competency, you start to become confident. And when that confidence really hits, is when you're going to start creating this value, right? And I think this whole thing becomes a cycle. So I just find it fascinating that you've really honed in kind of on your own process of learning. Yeah, there's almost more of a skill these days of learning, of like learning how to find information. Like more than just knowing the information itself, like being able to find the information. And so like my wife will, like I'll show her something I've done in my studio or like some little thing I've done on a video edit. And she's like, how in the world do you like figure this stuff out? It's like, I don't know. I just like find it. I just go out and like try to find that information because you're right. Like everything we could possibly want to know exists. It's just a matter of finding our exact process and flow for how we're going to find where that information is because it's somewhere. It might be in some random Reddit forum or it might be someone's video with five views. It's out there somewhere. On the rabbit hole, absolutely. Yeah, man, it's sifting through the noise to find the signal, right? And it's not dissimilar to finding good nutrition advice or finding good information about it or the biologics, right? Patients come to me and I'm like, hey, you can read about PRP and they're like, oh yeah, I'll Google it. I'm like, well, you know, it's you're going to find good information, bad information, you just got to know where to look. And I think that's what makes us somewhat good at that because we do have that background knowledge, right? And but a lot of what both of you guys talked about is, you know, what I'm hearing is at some level though, you just got to do the work, right? I mean, you got to do the work. There's no substitute for that work. And whatever it is that means to you. And obviously for different tasks, a different amount is going to be required. And for many, the listeners will know. And you know, a lot of folks in the medical field are listening that there is just the demands of the work that's required to even get through finish, medical school, finish residency. It's high, right? I mean, so you went through a very, I mean, you had four years of medical school, a difficult specialty of your primary specialty. And now you're doing sports fellowship, which is just the busiest year, all the coverage and everything going on, enter new baby into the mix. I'm wondering how it is that you maybe even have this, create this balance, right? You know, we talk about the importance of that, right? From a mental health perspective, self-care is something that us physicians are, we're not known for taking care of ourselves, right? We do a good job taking care of patients, but again, starting with ourselves is super important. Like, especially when I think about what you do, like sometimes it, for me, it looks like you're on call, man. Like somebody goes down and you know, you got that video by the end of the game. Like, how is it that you find the ability to do that? Yeah, it's funny you say that because that honestly is how it feels sometimes. And I think, you know, sort of one transition point with all of it was once I got to the level where I was making money off of it, I saw kind of like you mentioned at the beginning, you know, like making more than we make his, you know, residents and fellows is like, okay, this is like actually a sustainable like business. Like, this is a thing that that really like helps up a minute income as a resident fellow, et cetera, down the road. And so once I kind of saw that true kind of side product of it, I was a little bit more willing to almost treat it at times like it was a job than like I was on call because I also saw early on like, that's how the success came, right? Like, there's no doubt that early in my channel, the fact that I could get a video up so quickly is what brought me the success because there's this short, like 24 hour window where people are going to YouTube search about something that just happened and you want your video right there at the top. And so if you wait a day, if you wait till the next day, you're going to be so far down at the bottom of that list for people to start going to find it. And so I realized that if I wanted to build the success, as much as I enjoyed doing it, I kind of had no choice then to treat it like that. And then it kind of got to the point was almost like an internal competition to see like how quick I could make the process, right? Like, can I shave off five minutes? Can I shave off 15 minutes? Can I find a new way to edit? I totally changed how I edit my videos. I basically do like a screen recording session like I'm live streaming. And I have all of my clips and anatomy that just like pop up with toggle switches so that when I record, I just have to splice the clip. Like, I don't have to overlay the images. I don't have to overlay the video footage. It's just like all recorded in one swoop. And that was like a big accomplishment because it shaved off like 20, 30 minutes of time. So I think the things that you enjoy and are important to you, you're always going to find time for. And there are certainly times where it's like, you know, there's something going on that I could make a video on, but like I need to take care of my newborn. And so I'm just gonna go take care of my newborn and realize that like the family stuff still comes first. But there is like an anything that you are trying to build and develop. Like you have to make some sacrifices. And whether it's going through your medical training or starting a YouTube channel where you're trying to grow an audience, you have to make those sacrifices at times. I mean, there were plenty of times where, you know, I'd be on my way to bed at 10 o'clock at night and I'd get some tweet alert that something just happened. It's like, well, boy, I don't really know if I want to do this, but I know that like this is kind of what it takes to keep building this thing that I'm trying to build. And those instances are so few compared to the times where it's like truly fun and enjoyable. That you just kind of make those sacrifices the same way you have to make the sacrifices with anything else. And so I think taking as much pride and enjoyment in the process of what you're doing as much as like the result is helpful when you're trying to balance those things. But it's like anything, right? It's a balance of what time you feel like is most important to you and kind of making those sacrifices along the way. So I'm glad you compared it almost like moon lighting, right? That's interesting. Yeah, you looked at it that way. And I think that makes sense to me. And so I'd like to take the next couple minutes and talk a little bit about the business side of things if you're a game for this, right? So I think that a lot of folks who might hear this, they say, okay, well, this is an opportunity. And this is something I'm passionate about and I could potentially build and if I'm generating revenue, fantastic, right? It kind of really helps because you talked about the time it takes, but also takes a lot of money, right? So it's both time investment, also financial investment. What are some maybe strategies and tactics? You mentioned the clipping thing, other things that people could keep in the back of their mind to maybe boost revenue or whatever project that they're starting, what are things that people can look for? Specifically with like a YouTube channel. Yeah, I mean, honestly, really anything. I mean, you've got a podcast now, you're on Twitter, so you're on some different mediums, right? I think you have to realize that it's a process. And if I use the comparison of a YouTube channel, people will look at my setup and what I have and what I do and think, which honestly, my camera is not some expensive camera, my gear is not big, fancy, expensive gear, but they'll see a lot of other prominent YouTubers who have like $5,000 cameras and $1,000 microphones. And they think that that's what they need in order to produce content or to start their business, whatever it is, you think you need everything that those people that you look up to for inspiration have. And you have to realize that those people that you're looking to or those companies you're looking to for inspiration did not start anywhere close to that level of resources and investment and equipment when they began their process. So the first year, I was like recording on my cell phone. I had like a little crummy lapel microphone that I would use and I had some super cheap box lights from Amazon that I had to like set up and take down our kitchen every time I wanted to make a video. And then as you kind of gradually progress, say, okay, here's an opportunity for improvement. I can upgrade my microphone and focus on making my sound quality better. And then after you do that, you say, okay, now I'm gonna upgrade my lighting and I'm gonna read about some lighting tips and I'm gonna spend some time over the next few months focusing on my lighting. And so if you take kind of a stepwise approach with it, you know, like a podcast, there's some basic things you need but eventually, okay, now we're gonna work on our interview style or we're gonna work on our back and forth flow, you know, taking those gradual steps to realize that you're not gonna start at the level of what you aspire to be. You're gonna start below that just like everybody else and it's gonna be a gradual stepwise improvement which I think is why you have to have pleasure in the process, right? Like you have to enjoy learning about making a podcast better. You have to enjoy learning about starting a microbrewer or like whatever it is because it's gonna be a struggle at times and you're not gonna start at the level that you want to eventually aspire to and so you have to enjoy that process to get there. Specifically speaking, so one of the things that obviously to gender revenue, you're gonna have sponsorships affiliate some version of that, right? And one of the ways to do is obviously you grow following and companies will reach out to you but of course you could reach out to products that you believe in, things that you endorse, right? We know that LMNT sponsors you, we're big fans of them for sure. What would be your recommendation in terms of that aspect of it? Was that something that you sought out or were people looking towards you because you were creating this awesome content? Yeah, it kind of was in both directions. So as it's kind of funny because I think like the first time I had a video trending on YouTube, I suddenly got all these emails from companies that are like, hey, we'd love to collaborate with you. And honestly probably like 90% of them are like total scams. Like it's some random email that's full of terrible formatting from some company you've never heard of. And it's like, we have new products. Like please try our new product and support our product. It's all very vague. And so at least 90% of it just gets deleted. Thankfully I work with like a management group basically that I was referred to by some other YouTube content creators and basically they take a percentage of the brand deal fee. But they basically sat with me and said, okay, what are the things you do want to work with? What are the companies you don't want to work with? So for me, I was very clear, I don't want to work with like medical brace companies. I'm not going to work with like men's hair loss companies. I'm not going to do CBD products or like medical marijuana or whatever. And so then they sort of work with the companies to come to me with brand deals and say, hey, here's, you know, it's for ex dollars. This is the requirement. Are you interested, yes or no? And then if I say yes, they deal with all the contract and negotiation stuff. And if I say no, then they're like, all right, great. And they move on from it. So for people who get to that level, I would 100% recommend finding one of these like talent, brand management groups. And you can oftentimes just kind of Google search it and you'll find groups out there that are doing it. You know, if you try and coordinate with other people in your industry, like for me, coordinating with other YouTube creators to say, hey, who are you working with? Who are some groups that you're familiar with and maybe I can reach out to? Taking advantage of that network is really big. And it's good. You know, there you get way more requests, like I said, for things that you actually want to talk about. And so sometimes like the money's tempting, but it's like, I don't really think I should. I don't think I should be talking about this and supporting it even though like the money would be really nice. And so you kind of, again, like going back to having a good sense of just your own professional standards and kind of moral stuff to know like what you do and don't feel comfortable with. How does someone know that they've gotten to that level where they're ready to outsource and get a management company? That's a great question. I think if you're starting to get offers sent to you, then that's a sign that people are interested in sponsoring and being on your content. You know, I think I don't, I've tried to think how many, I probably had 100,000 subscribers when I started up with that company. And you know, the rates for things like the level that I'm at right now with 600,000 subscribers a 60 second brand deal is between like two and four grand. And so then I can only imagine like if you're only pulling in like tens of thousands of like an audience, your brand deals might only be worth like a few hundred bucks. And so then you have to decide like well, is that really worth the time it takes to film an ad and like communicate back and forth with the company? And so I think it depends to on just like what level of time you're willing to spend for the return that you're going to get. I mean, the people who have like a million subscribers on YouTube are probably getting like $10,000, $20,000 to do like one of these sponsor deals. And so then it's like clearly worth it. But if you're only getting like a few hundred bucks then it's kind of like well, do I really want to take four to five hours to film this ad for whatever company or just kind of go about my way? Yeah, absolutely. On the flip side of things, are you getting like recruited at all, let's say by like companies to be like, hey, Brian, we'd love to have you as an advisor here or chief medical officer or, you know, even like job prospects. Not at all. Not at all. And it's kind of interesting because I would like to do that sort of thing actually. Like their ESPN for example has like their medical injury analyst. She does a great job, Stefanie Bell. She's a physical therapist by training. And she does a lot of their like fantasy football talk shows and content. But really a lot of the other sports networks don't have anybody. And it honestly kind of blows my mind because I know people at those networks and like talk with them. And I'm always like, guys, I'm right here. Like look at the clear interest in this. I want to expand my brand and my presence. I will come on your podcast for free. I will talk with your reporters about an article for free. Like I'm right here. And rarely. Like there's been a couple of people that I've done some interviews with. But I really didn't think by now, like, it would be like, hey, do you want to come be our like, you know, medical analyst for like whatever. And nothing. So I don't know if they just don't, I don't know what it is. I don't know if people just don't think there's like value or interest in it. Or if people almost like being able to just sort of speculate themselves about that stuff, right? Because as soon as you like bring in a doctor who's like going to tell you the truth about something, you kind of lose the ability to sit there and like, well, this and that. And they're crazy. And that, you know, you kind of lose that kind of provocative sports talk show ability when someone's like telling you, like, no, this is like, this is the truth is situation. Yeah, it's, it's funny that you bring that up, you know, I think JJ Redick was interviewing Stephen A Smith recently. And I was watching this clip on YouTube. And he was talking about how 10 years ago, it was just sports center, just clips over there running it. And then, you know, the debate format really started, I don't know, somewhere 2008 and came in and get bailist started then. Now you've got the, the fox thing and really everything is all debate format. And yeah, if your physician comes up, oh, no, actually, this is this brain is going to take this long. There was hours worth of content. So that wouldn't be too exciting for that. Right. So yeah. So well, who knows. I'm kind of at the point with it now where like, I've accepted that that may never happen. And so it's just my focus to kind of keep growing my stuff on my own. And if those other opportunities come up great, but, you know, YouTube's nice because it's, I can control it all right. Like I can post whenever I want. I can say whatever I want. I don't have to have kind of that personal view on my shoulder. Well, we're not going to give up hope, man. I mean, because I think what was keeping you from that was that, you know, a CNBC and ABC hadn't listened to this show. So once you listen to it, you're definitely going to. That's right. Yeah. You guys have a lot of pressure now. I think also too, it's hard. Like when you're, you know, we talk about like the social media stuff. And when you're still like a trainee, it's tough, right? Because people don't, you know, every time I did like an interview for some article, I'd have to say like, well, like I'm a fellow, which technically means like you can't really refer to me as a sports medicine doctor because people who raise your article are going to think that means that I've been like practicing. And I'm licensed. And they're like, what are you talking about? Like what do you mean you're a fellow? Like what is that? And so I'm hoping to that now, like once I'm done and I can say, like, yep, I am a sports medicine physician. They're like, okay, cool. Like you kind of have a little bit more credibility. So close to that finish line, man, we could taste it just a week left, right? Like eight days. So we talked a lot about, we talked a lot about your, you know, your YouTube channel and stuff. But you recently started a podcast too. So, you know, I got to ask why, right? There's been two or three months. Yeah, three clothes. It's done. I think 14 episodes. So huge credit Jeff Stotz. He is an athletic trainer who still practices, works as an athletic trainer at a high school. But develop, started working on this MBA injury database probably 10 or so years ago. Just huge basketball fan. To date has probably the most comprehensive, just injury database that I know of. And he actually started a company with another physician, Robbie Sika, where they provide like consulting services to MBA teams about like when players get injured and like draft pick review and all kinds of really cool stuff. And Jeff and I had always kind of been on the same page in terms of like our goal is education. We're not here to talk about fantasy sports. We're just like teach people and provide some context. And you know, I kind of, we said earlier how like there's this pressure to get involved with like TikTok and Instagram and this and that. And I kind of felt a little bit of a pressure to start a podcast to be totally honest. I think some of it was I wanted to get some reps in the sense of, you know, talking in YouTube format is very different when I can speak for 10 minutes into the camera and then clip together five minutes of a video. A podcast, it's a little bit more, you know, pressure in the sense that you can't, like go back on what you said, it's just a different way of communicating. And as much as I want to be on other people's podcasts to kind of, you know, keep spreading that, that awareness, I just felt like I needed some more experience myself. And so it's been a nice challenge, you know, I always like having something that I'm like working on that I'm pushing myself with that's a new challenge. It's been a great challenge like getting to know Jeff has been fantastic. And so it's just been a new experience. I mean, I don't see it as like we're going to grow this thing like I grew my YouTube channel. I kind of see it as like a side project that's a fun way to, you know, get to know somebody really well, something that doesn't really exist in the podcast space either and is helping to develop another skill, right? It's another skill to edit the audio and talk on a podcast for an hour or whatever the case may be. So it's been a fun challenge where I think like yeah, 14 episodes in and who knows where it's going to go. But it's been great to kind of stress yourself and learn from it. Absolutely, you know, you talk about creating value for others, but then also for yourselves, right? With this new project, you also mentioned getting reps in, right? So I know a lot of people want to be your shoes and our shoes, right? And the podcast is doing YouTube, getting their face on TikTok. But one of the thing that holds them back is this self consciousness, right? I can't stand to see myself or what if I mess up or I'm not the best public speaker. How do you, how do you recommend people start and get those reps in and then eventually get over that hump? If you're doing a video format, the best thing that I can recommend doing is getting Snapchat. And just sending Snapchat stories to like a friend or significant other all day. Because it'll force you to just like get used to seeing your face on a screen. And it's very low risk, right? They're not going to judge you like nobody's going to put it out on the internet for everybody to see. But it kind of gets you used to seeing your face in front of a camera. I mean, like there were so many days when I first started all this that I would like try to record a video. And then I'd like watch it back and I'm like, oh my gosh, does my voice seriously sound like that? And like, is that really what my face looks like? It's hard. I think everybody experiences it. I mean, you guys probably felt the same way. Like when you first started doing your podcast, you listen back and you're like, wait, that's what I sound like to everybody. And then you get far enough into it that it's just like second nature. And it's not a big deal anymore. And so I would tell people, have the confidence that you'll get over that. Like eventually if you do it enough, you won't even think twice about like seeing yourself on camera, hearing what you sound like in a pair of headphones. But you just had to get the reps. Like there's no way around it. It's never going to become more comfortable and easy than just progressively exposing yourself to it and getting over it. They're like, a switch is not going to flip one day where you're like, all right, I'm comfortable with this. You've got to just gradually expose yourself to it more and more and more. And the nice thing is when you first start, nobody's really like seeing it or listening to it. I mean, everybody starts out small. And so it's like, okay, maybe 20 people are going to hear your funny sounding voice or see your like I am in the beginning. I got so many comments about my appearance. Like I have a dimple in my chin and people would be like, oh, this is really interesting. But I can't stop looking at the butt chin that you have. And I would like look in the mirror and be like, oh my gosh, they're right. Like I do. And I got super self conscious about it. And then like a few months goes by and you're like, okay, that's ridiculous. Like nobody cares. You kind of get over it. And so again, it's that like embrace the process. Like know that it's going to be awkward. There's no getting around that it's going to be awkward. But it's never going to not be awkward to start. And so if you want to get there, you just have to accept and start. I mean, some of the best advice I got in life period was from an orthopedic surgeon. After I found out I was not going to get into medical school the first year. And the med school told me, well, we don't believe that you can excel at like graduate level science courses because your engineering GPA was kind of low. And like, and they told me to go back to graduate school. Well, I had been working at an engineering job like after college. And like the thought of going back to graduate school for a year and like leaving a nice paying job and my friends was sort of terrible. But I met with this orthopedic surgeon and he basically looked at me and he's like, what do you need to do today to get to where you want to be in 20 years? And like it sounds so simple, but it was so true. Like the thing that I needed to do that day was in a role in a graduate program to get to where I wanted to be in 20 years of being a doctor. And it was that simple. And it's the same with creating all these businesses, the social media stuff. Like if you say okay in five years, I want to have X number of followers or I want to have X revenue on a business or I want to be the head team physician for the St. Louis Cardinals. What do you need to do today to get to that spot in 20 years? And oftentimes with the social media stuff, that means turning on the camera, turning on the microphone, hitting record and just starting because it's never going to get easier and all you're doing is losing out on valuable time. Yeah, it's such sound advice. I mean, I look at myself now and I'm like, you know, I'm 30. I look back and I'm like, man, if I knew this stuff, I did down at 20 or even if I just enacted those dreams at the age of 20 right with the same mentality, the same grind, quote unquote, man, I would be accomplishing those things earlier. And that's fine because I'm embracing the process. But don't let that be another regret, you know, as you look 10, 15, 20 years down the road. So yeah, so I know I know we're coming up on time. So a lot of couple questions here is what is next for you? Where do you see yourself, you know, after fellowship? What are kind of the next steps? I'm still looking for a job. So if any, if any potential employers out there listening, no, I'm so I'm in the process of interviewing for a couple of years. And hopefully I'll find out here in the next month or two about where we're going to end up. For now, man, I'm going to get boards out of the way and enjoy some time at home with our newborn son and my wife and just kind of chilling for a little while. You know, I want to still continue to practice like academic medicine, I think, whether that's truly in like a big academic setting where I'm surrounded by like residents and fellows, or even just in a place where I can just teach like medical students and interact with like high school pre-meds. I want to be somewhere where I can practice sports medicine, but still be able to teach people. Because I've realized like that's truly my passion and that's truly kind of like what I want to do with with my education and beyond just taking care of patients. And so who knows where that's going to end up being. I don't really have the aspirations of being like a big head team doctor. Most people message me and they're like, how do I become the team doctor for the Yankees? All right, like slow down, there's about like 20 steps of things that you need to think about. So I don't really have big goals like that. I think it's take great care of patients, have opportunities to teach people and continue to educate and just keep grinding away at the media stuff and see what other doors open themselves up. As opportunities to step through. Awesome, man. Well, before I ask the last question, man, I just want to say thank you so much for giving your time to come in here and talking to Altamush and I. You know, as you know, Altamush are doing this podcast. There's so much that I at this moment, I can see him from Altamush's face that we're just like learning from you and slowly putting it in our head saying, oh, okay, well, this is what we could do. This is what we could do. So definitely appreciate your input. I think a lot of our listeners are definitely going to find value, you know, and learn from you as a teacher. So we'll definitely link your YouTube as well on there for people to check out. But our last question here is, how do we put the health back in health care? How do we put the health back in health care? Man, my first, the first thing I thought about was diet and exercise. And I think a lot of that comes down to like education for people to understand the value of a diet and exercise. I mean, we've got all of these new things like stem cells and PRP and fancy surgeries and this and that. Like so many things in medicine and health care could just be better with like basic health, which is like diet and exercise, right? And so I feel like if we can get people at a younger age, like truly back to understand the importance of like diet and exercise, that's going to be the biggest thing we can do to make people healthy. Beyond that, I mean, we've got to like stick to our roots, you know, I've got a sports medicine consultant here who doesn't do like ultrasound stuff. He doesn't do like orthobiologics. He's just like the foundations of sports medicine and not forgetting those roots of kind of where we came from amongst all this new technology and and changing directions of the field. Like at the end of the day, people are still people and people's physiology and the problems that we have really aren't any different now than they were 200 years ago. It's just now that we have the benefit of everything else to kind of help with it. So I think the best we can can remember those roots amongst all the stuff that we're now being being forced to deal with. Love it. Perfect. Thanks Brian. Thank you. Thanks guys. Thank you.