61. Seema Desai, DDS: From Dentistry to Transformational Coaching

Hello everyone, I'm Dr. Darsha, and I'm Dr. Altamash Raja, and welcome to Medicine Redefined. A podcast where we will explore the often overlooked but necessary components of health, what we consider to be the fundamentals. We will investigate topics and practices that can give you and your patients the best chance to optimize a healthy lifestyle. It's time to move the needle forward and put the health back in healthcare. Our guest today is Dr. Seema Desai, a certified professional coach, speaker, and author of a newly released children's book, Connected, Discovering Your Inner Guides. She is also the co-president of the Austin chapter of Brutum, a non-profit organization aimed at creating learning equality for underserved children in India and globally. Though she no longer sees patients, Seema is a general dentist who dedicated her years serving the geriatric population in Austin and surrounding areas. It was because of her experiences as a doctor married to another doctor as a postpartum depression warrior and as a mother that she decided to cure her coaching practice towards helping other doctors boost their performance, their well-being, and to create more fulfillment and joy. Seema is also a passionate practitioner of yoga and mindfulness. Now, throughout this episode, we dig deep into Seema's journey, not only her professional journey, but also her personal one, from childhood to present that has helped her become a better mother, a better coach, and just a better human being overall. Enjoy the episode. All right. Welcome back, everyone. Seema, it's been some time. We've been connected through Instagram, social media, we've done IG lives in the past, but it's been a while since we've talked, so welcome to the podcast. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's so exciting to watch you do different iterations and grow. It's really, really awesome. Thanks. Yeah, no, it's been a fun journey, and I know you or someone who appreciates the journey as well, which is why we brought you on here, and we're really going to get into your journey and your transformation in terms of coaching and how you're helping others with transformation. But before we get there, let's start with just your journey, your background. Let's get the audience to get to know you. Yeah, sure. Well, I am a general dentist by, in my first professional life, I was a general dentist. And I thought that that was what I was supposed to do, because that's what you do when you're an Indian person, right? You go to college and you get good grades, and you somehow become a doctor, and then you get married and you have kids, and so I found myself kind of, I had checked off all the boxes that everybody else had said that I needed to check off in order to be happy. And there was just this like lingering feeling, this nagging feeling, I can't really even describe it, but when I did identify it, it turned out it was just like, I'm really not happy here, even though from the, from the outside, it looked like I had it all together. And there was some real guilt associated with that, because I had everything that, you know, most people aspire to, and they, that's what people define as success, right? You have the title, and you have like the good Indian husband that, you know, the parents approve of, and the kids, and Malala, and so there was some real guilt about just quote unquote, having it all, but not feeling like I had it all. So there was a real like crisis there that happened. And I actually experienced postpartum depression with my first kid, probably because there were just things brewing in the background, again, that set up for this perfect storm. But I'm really grateful for it, because as much as it broke me in the moment, it was kind of this time to be reborn, and it was really, really, it was amazing to have my son be the catalyst for me turning into somebody that I wouldn't even, like I was telling somebody the other day, if I, if a five year old version of me had looked at my life now, I don't think I would have believed it, or even a 10 or 15 or 25 year old version of me, I would have said, you're crazy, that's, that's not possible. So, but it's all because, you know, I, of him and, and my experience with having him. So, as much as he drives me crazy, so, so blessed to be able to take that and turn it into a gift. Absolutely. That's, that's amazing to hear. Yeah. So it's, yeah, there's, there's a lot you said in there that, you know, we could totally unpack. And if anyone South Asian listened to this, they can probably relate to the values that we grow up with, right? And the definitions that we're taught with about what is success, right? And a lot of that comes with titles, it comes with prestige, and it comes with society. I mean, I think almost like 90% of it probably does. And for our generation, at least, you know, being here in the States, you know, growing up here, I don't know if you grew up here, did you grow up in the same, okay? Yeah. You know, there's always that it's tough, right? I mean, we're not hanging out with solely Indians, you know, growing up or South Asians. And we have our parents to us telling us one thing. And then it's us kind of breaking out of our shell to understand that there's so much mortal life than what we're taught, right? And I think that's that aha moment. And I can totally relate to how you, you know, talk about the guilt and just like not being super, super happy, right? And I think a lot of the times, and I'm not even going to say this is the only South Asians. And as a teenager, I think just growing up, trying to be successful in terms of education is we, we have a tough time fighting for ourselves. And we have a tough time making decisions for ourselves that know we'll make us happy inside, right? It's a classic like you're an art major, but how are you going to support yourself kind of story? And like, yeah, just, yes, exactly. And I remember, you know, I was pretty dental at first. And you know, my brother. He was he was going into dental school at that point. And you know, in my eyes, I was like, oh, well, I should probably follow what he does and dentistry is cool. And I'm kind of just making up excuses as to why I like it. And I finally took that leap of fighting for myself when I said, you know what, I actually want to do pre-med. I think medical school is more of my route. But then you, you know, that that's one small win, but how do we transform that win into many other wins and constantly fighting for ourselves for happiness? And you know, me as a resident right now, I still look at and I'm like, hmm, this isn't exactly what I wanted. I know, I don't want to be a traditional just physician working in a hospital like I want to do more, right? And I think it's like you said, looking back at like a five-year-old me looking at myself now and probably be like, what, that's not, you know, you wouldn't be doing all this right now. And it's just funny how it works. And I think that journey is so critical. And I know, I know you're about that. I wanted to ask you though, so I want to ask you why dentistry, not in the sense of like why the science, why you choose it. But what was going through your head when you were kind of choosing the career that you wanted? Yeah. Well, so I grew up in a really small town. And every Indian that we knew either owned motels or they were doctors. And my parents actually are their blue collar workers. I say that in that my dad is, he fixes cars. That's his thing. It's a successful business. So I guess you could say that that's really more his thing, but his trade is craft is auto repair. And so we were constantly kind of like we weren't in this bucket and we weren't in that bucket. And the error and the message that my family got was, well, if you're not a doctor, you're not good enough. And you never will be good enough. And so I felt like in order to qualify and validate, I needed to be a doctor, except for I was watching these, these doctors work their butts off. And I was thinking, like, God, I can't. Why? You know, like this doesn't seem right. Um, granted, they were back like 80s, 90s, like they were raking it in in terms of like money. Right. But I just thought like every time I turn around, like, oh, you know, uncles on call and, oh, and he's like, oh, and it's like, this is not like why are people wearing this like a badge of honor? Right. And so I thought, okay, well, I've got to find something where I'm a doctor, but I'm not on call. And that's where I landed on dentistry. And then you know, you get the whole, like, well, are they really doctors? You've got that, that whole, I, that was a whole other journey that was circuitous and parallel. But just finding, you know, finding self confidence and not needing to be validated by anyone in terms of like, are you a doctor or not? And even if you are, are you really that much better than somebody who holds an MBA or went to law school or has a four year degree or doesn't have any degree at all? Like, it's just an interesting sort of concept when to your point. You have this cultural norm that you're breaking. It's all for your base thinking, right, that, that it stems from, but it's an interesting paradox. Yeah, you know, I talk about all the time. Is college really going to be a thing 10, 15 years from now, you know, like when, when I have kids or your kids are going to go to college, like, we now know that these big tech companies even aren't just recruiting high schoolers almost or just recruiting people with skill, right? And I think skill and talent and that hard work means way more than just a degree to climb up the ladder. So yeah, to your point, it's, it is all for your base in the end. So is it fair to say then, you know, there's obviously within healthcare doctors, there's this whole burnout that's happening right now. I mean, Forbes just put out a post saying that, you know, 75% of the healthcare workforce, especially physicians are going to leave by 2025, which it's pretty heartically, that's pretty high number. But would you say that dentistry also has a burnout issue? 100%, 100%. I always say that we were made doctors in a broken system. And I don't care what kind of doctor you are, right? Like it, it pharmacy or, or dentistry or there's, there's so many different types. But I don't feel like any of us are really immune to it. I mean, dentistry in general kind of gets the short end of the stick in terms of how society views it. But then also, I mean, how many times, I can't even tell you how many times I've seen a new patient. And then they're like, yeah, I really hate the dentist. And you're like, really? I mean, I don't want to hear that all day. And why would you even say that to me when I'm about to like, what we're about to have a procedure is that this is really what you want to be saying to me is, how much you hate me for, you know, helping you, I don't, it's a physically taxing job, I think, which is underappreciated by pre dental, you know, and even in dentistry, in dental school, when you're, you know, I hate to sound like this like old crotchety lady, but like when you're 25 or younger, right, like 22, 23, they tell you like how ergonomics is important and how neck pain and shoulder pain and back pain are going to be a thing, but you're just immune to it at that point, right? You're setting yourself up, but you can't feel the long-term effects. It's very, very physically taxing. So, you know, there's a lot of reasons why dentistry is very susceptible to burnout, just as much as physicians. Yeah. Do you think pre dental students have any awareness in terms of what constitutes being a dentist? Because I know in, you know, as far as being a physician, a medical physician, that pre medical students have zero idea what med school is like, med students have zero idea of what residency is like. And as a resident, I zero idea what to expect as an attending. And that loop is like so broken, is that the same thing? Yeah. Yeah. I would say so. I would say so. I mean, they do ask that you shadow and this and that, but until you really experience it, it's hard to know. And again, we view life through our own filters. And if we lack an experience, you know, there's nothing wrong with being a kid, right? It's a beautiful part of life. But you lack the experience and the wisdom to really maybe catch those nuances that would be glaringly obvious to somebody who is maybe going to dentistry as a second career. Yeah. Awesome. So I want to transition now into kind of your pivot in terms of coaching. So what was there a defining moment that like you can recall that made that light switch or that light bulb turn on in your head saying, I need to get out, like, I need to switch from dentistry, from practicing and doing X, Y, Z, like, did you have that figured out? Like, what was that transition like? Yeah. It was definitely not an overnight switch. It was not anything. It was just kind of a series of things. And I think it got to be where the straw that broke the camel's back. You know, not to take like the entire hour talking about how I switched over, but, you know, so my husband's in medicine and he does a lot of shift work. And we just kind of, we brought kids into this world thinking, like, I know, no offense to anyone who decides to have a nanny or help or, you know, whatever. But I just wasn't able to be okay with that. So when each of my kids was, you know, born and I was expecting and all this, I took a lot of time off with each kid. And I was just happier to not have to go. And then every time I returned to work, I was actually very fortunate to find part 10 gigs where I was doing mobile dentistry, geriatric dentistry. This is an underserved population and it was just such a treat to be able to work with them. I really, really enjoyed connecting with that population. But it just, there were things about the way mobile dentistry's run that it just, it wasn't for me. And I would find myself just more excited about like the pottery barn catalog than the ADA, you know, whatever that was coming to me in the mail. So I was trying to just observe the signs. The thing was, it's one thing to say like, all right, this isn't for me. But it's another thing to know, like, well, I guess what I'm saying is it's one thing to know that this isn't for you and have an idea of what you do want to do. It's a very different story when you know what you have is not what's for you, but you also don't know what you would want to do instead. That was where I was at. And so my journey was just not everyone really saw it. I got on Instagram and started blogging about really nothing in particular. And somehow in there created enough connection to catch the eye of a publisher. I just published a children's book on Navigating Emotion, I connected with another South Asian woman who was going through coaching school and was like, hey, you know, I see your posts about mindfulness and meditation and yoga. I really think this coaching school would be just as right up your alley. And I don't know, I just followed the breadcrumbs and really leaned into what was being offered in the moment and trusted my intuition. And I think because I was so focused on really honing in to that message, I couldn't hear the thousand reasons why I quote, unquote, shouldn't do this, right? You've been to dental school. There's so much money involved. You've already invested so much. Not everyone gets to do this, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're giving up security. You're giving up notoriety and whatever position. But I didn't really hear at all. So it was a very circuitous journey, but I landed in coaching school. And it was just like, oh, this feels right. This, I'm not, you know, this feels like it was meant to be. And so here I am. And it's been a really amazing journey. Yeah, I think, you know, the key thing you said in there is that you kind of just leaned into it, right? And I think a lot of people are feeling what you felt and dose makes the poison. And the prominent health care is the dose is so high that the burnout happens for a reason, right? But if you, you know, for you doing the dentistry a little bit at a time and doing the geriatric, like that's fun. And that's like how I view medicine right now is like, I don't want to be bound by a certain number of hours, by certain number of patients. I kind of want to just do what I do, but on the side also live a life and be a human being, just like everyone else almost can be in other jobs. And that's what kind of where health care lacks. But then you have the awareness to lean into it and just start, right? I always talk about just starting. And for you is kind of just the blogs. Were you always doing like meditation mindfulness or do that start from somewhere? No, that started from my depression. I, yeah, like I just found it as a way to try to advocate for myself. I don't think anyone really knew what was going on for me. And I mean, I was having some really, I was in a hole. And I don't even think my husband really, like when I would tell him things, it was just, to your point, right, he was a brand new attending and studying for his boards. And he was just easier to kind of deny it. So yoga was my way of kind of advocating for myself and saying, like, no, something is really wrong and I need to fix it. And I just what started out as a class, once a week, turned into just any time I could go I would. And it turned into therapy for me, really. And it was saved my life. And the meditation kind of came afterward. But it was just life getting amazing. Yeah. And for the listeners out there of this your first time here, I mean, we have so many episodes where we talk about meditation, mindfulness, and just the life saving hack, you know, if I even can call it a hack, it is because that's like, feel like the way we view it now is our culture. But it is just something that's, it's ingrained in myself as well, doing a breathing practice at least for at least 10, 15 minutes a day. But just having that time off, I think, can really, really give people a better perspective. But see, this is, this is awesome. So you've now taken your passion and you've turned it into a business. So tell us about your coaching practice. Yeah. Well, I love to say coaching is kind of a blanket term. I mean, you can use in sports, right? And there's a lot of people, there's not a lot of regulation. So on my medicine, you don't technically have to have a license or anything. You can just wake up one day and call yourself a coach. So the problem is you have a lot of unqualified people doing a lot of telling and a lot of what is not coaching. And what I like to equate it for for people who are kind of familiar with spiritual teachings and things is it's yoga off the mat. It's all the other lessons of yoga, right? Like finding equanimity and not being attached to one perspective and that self mastery that comes, you know, there's there's more than just the pose, right? So I think that's what resonated with me. And it was the bridge from yoga to coaching. But what I love doing is partnering with other physicians, other dentists to help them essentially level up. I think we're given all the knowledge and the tools, right? Like, this is how you do a procedure. This is these are the drugs, these are the meds. These are, you know, this is how you work. It's all given to us in residency. But what's not taught to us is really how to get to that next level. How do you tap into, you know, those doctors that you see and they're just like on it, right? They're so empathetic and they just get people and they see things that other people don't see. They, they solution seek. They are just, and it doesn't deplete them. And it's not the medical knowledge or the experience that gets them there. It's the self mastery, right? It's that peak in performance, that self confidence, self awareness, the ability to lead with authenticity and vulnerability is a skill that's not taught. And that's what I really love doing with these physician leaders is working on that. Yeah, because a lot of people would probably think those abilities are innate, right? Like you're born with it and oh, that person's a natural. But yeah, I mean, a lot of those things can be taught, right? I think there's a big push now, even just in our education system to say, hey, we need to put more social EQ emotional, emotional intelligence out there for our children. But how can you do that if our own teachers don't have the ability? So there you come in as a coach to teach others, to hopefully also kind of teach others to do that. So what type of certifications do you have? Can you break that down for us? Cause I know there's like life coaching, performance coaching. So how does it work? There's all sorts of, you know, and essentially it's all life coaching. I know people want to try to break it down, but it's funny. I actually just did a blog post on something similar where we want to try to compartmentalize, but it's really all various aspects of life. So I want to make that clear. I went to Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching, which is essentially it's a whole certification process. And then I went and got my ACC, which is basically the equivalent of a universal, a universally recognized level of skill in coaching. And went ahead and did additional certifications for performance and well-being. I work a lot with something called positive intelligence, which is an interesting blend of various disciplines, neuroscience and positive psychology, and just various different things. But it's an interesting kind of framework to get to work with people in. Because it's, again, a framework, right? So we get, it's easier to get from point A to point B when you have that roadmap ahead of you. So that I have various certifications. And I think that that's an important distinction between somebody who just calls themselves a coach versus somebody who has actually passed a qualifying exam to say, yes, I hold a certification. So. Yeah, yeah, there's a huge difference in that for sure. So what's your typical client like? I know you just mentioned working with other practitioners. Are you solely working with other practitioners or is your scope a little outside of that as well with any kind of professional? Yeah, I mean, I'm never gonna, the reality is, it's, if anyone's ready to do the work, I'm not gonna distinguish between, oh, you're in healthcare. I know you're not in healthcare. But most of my clients are physicians simply because I feel like there's some sort of resonance there. Like when you know that somebody has a background that you have and can understand intimately, the stresses of what it's like to have patient care and my chart and all these other things that you have to manage as well as nursing and therapy and all this other, there's a multi-factorial team that is in play. So my clients, most of them are women. I don't know why that is exactly. I don't know, I don't know, that's about. Do you wonder if they're like, is it a vulnerability thing? Like men seeking out or men more, like I don't know actually what the stats are in terms of like even with like mental health providers or like psychologists, if like women seek it out more than men do, but that's, yeah, that is, I guess interesting. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know and I don't know if it's maybe because I'm a woman and it's the dynamic might be different. I really have no idea. There's some excellent, you know, male coaches out there and I think that the reason most of their clients are men is because there's some sort of to your point ability to be vulnerable, but you know, I've had mainly women, which has been, but I've had some men too and it's been awesome. Yeah, but most of them are, they've been practicing for a while and have kind of come into this awareness of, you know, I think when you've become an attending at first or when you become a resident, you kind of have this bright dreamy kind of vision of the world, right? And then reality sets in and you look up a few years later and you're like, wait, this isn't what I thought it would be. And so I think that's kind of where a lot of my clients are. Is there like, well, I've been practicing for a while and you know, I know that there's more, I just don't know how to get there and what they don't realize is their self-sabotaging. We all do it. And you know, it sometimes takes somebody that you trust to help you kind of pull back from the picture so you can see it all. Yeah. What do most of your clients hope to seek out? Like, are they looking to stay within the practice or they're looking to get out of practice? Like you said, are they trying to level up? What exactly is the desired outcome? I think there, well, none of my clients so far have said I want to leave medicine. Okay. They actually are just like, there's just got to be a better way to do it, right? They're looking to up their leadership skills, up their communication, up their, you know, their patient outcomes, it's all related, you know. And so I think that that's kind of where they're at is I know I can be better as a leader, as a doctor, as a, you know, as a wife and a mother and you know, all these different hats that we as adults put on. And so that's what they show up for is, I know I can perform better. I just don't know how. Yeah. So I think it's in your LinkedIn headline, I might butcher this, but you say that you want to help transform, I guess, people in terms of what they call success. So do you find that definition of success to be very different from person to person? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, going back to what we were saying earlier, we have these other boxes that people tell us we have to check off and so I think part of the magic is helping people realize like, okay, well, what are your boxes? Like what is it that is going to make you feel successful? And that's kind of a light bulb moment for a lot of people because it's like, oh my gosh, I never thought about that. I never thought about, you know, how successful am I feeling right now in this moment on a scale of one to 10? And oftentimes I just putting a number on it is really powerful for them, right? So it's interesting to see. Absolutely. Now, when you think of outcomes, you know, especially with coaching, I think one of the reasons why I also feel people may not seek it out is because of like, how do you measure the outcome? Like, are you looking more at a subjective experience and them feeling better, knowing that they're better, knowing that they're improving, or is there anything objective too that you tell them to measure? I mean, you can certainly use things like scaling questions, but to your point, most of it is subjective. But, you know, the point is, as long as the client feels successful, then the rest doesn't matter, right? The rest is completely irrelevant. And so it's really about empowering the client to embrace the idea that they are the expert in their life, no one has their experiences. I mean, we might have similar degrees, we might have gone even to the same school, or have the same age kids, or live in the same city, but no one has your experiences. And no one can be the type of doctor you are. It's just impossible. And so identifying that is crucial. That's really cool, right? I think so many times in healthcare, we have so many mentors, right? We've looked to emulate people and try to fit our shape into theirs and try to be just like that other doctor rather than separating ourselves and realizing that we have these unique abilities, have these unique characteristics, our strengths and weaknesses, and owning that and being comfortable with that and using that for advantage, right? So, yeah, absolutely, cool. So I wanted to bring up the great resignation, right? Kind of something that we're going through right now. And, you know, this is gonna be a pretty generic question. So take it however you want, because you know I'm all about the deeper perspective and talking about kind of just philosophy and perspective and things like that. But what is your take kind of on why the US is going through this right now? Why are so many people leaving their jobs because COVID became the impetus of that? Yeah. I think COVID highlighted something that was already just lurking in the dark, right? Like this whole idea of you have to work hard. I will defend it to the ground. I don't believe you actually have to work hard. I believe you have to work with intent. And that may be a devoted amount of work, yes, but that I think people kind of were in this, on this hamster wheel, and we've got to work hard and we've got to quote unquote earn it. And, you know, when that sense of control and security and predictability was snatched away, it was really kind of like an opportunity for people to be like, wait. If I can't count on my job being there or my ability to go into work being there, if I can't escape my house, but whatever it may be, what is it about? Where do I do with that? Yeah, absolutely. I think we just got to the tipping point, the breaking point to where people have been like, screw this, I might go find a passion. So what advice would you have for people that are looking maybe to switch jobs or pivot or find a new passion life? Try not to give advice. I'm sorry, I'm pretty old-spot. Any kind of main takeaways, I guess, that you can like, you know, that people should at least think about? I think what gets, I would encourage people to identify what is sabotaging them from being really truly their most authentic and most vulnerable selves. Because I believe that once we tap into that authenticity and we're able to trust the process, which is, I mean, I can say it, but I'm still practicing this today. I mean, I still get in my own head, but if we can learn to trust the process and trust that it will be okay to be ourselves and live our own unique purposes in the way that we're meant to live them, it'll be for the highest good of everyone. It will be not just a win or a win-win, it will be a win-win-win. Yeah. One of the things, when you say trust the process, it really reminds me of just kind of the culture that we're in in terms of coming, like being in college, a lot of college students think they need to be successful almost in college, right? Because of the rise of Evan Spiegel or like Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk, people doing it at such a young age, but people don't realize, yeah, they might steal the spotlight on social media and the business world, but like, you can count them maybe on one hand, how many people are doing that? And Gary Vaynerchuk is always someone who talks about the process as long, like just trust it, just each and every day, like just do what you need to do, live within 10, and you'll see what happens even five, 10 years down the road, like you're still young at 30, 35, 40 years old. You know, you still have a whole life ahead of you. So take it slow, don't be so in your head, thinking you're not being successful at the age of 25, because everyone else you see on social media is, okay, you live in a kind of like a lie. But yeah, just trust in that process. So I really do like that, that creates. Yeah, the comparatitis can really get to you. Paratitis. Paratitis. Yeah. It's so easy to follow down that wormhole. And importantly, you know, things, part of it is becoming detached from a specific idea or a specific goal. I mean, I remember when I started Instagram, I was looking at these like fashion bloggers who had, you know, 10,000 followers. And it's like, I don't understand. Like I'm writing like real content, and it's stuff that makes you think. And I don't get it. And, you know, I was attaching myself worth to whether or not someone liked something or followed me or unfollowed me. And, you know, it's no different than any other walk of life, right? Like your RV use or your bonus structure or, you know, your pay increases or whatever it may be. You know, what kind of car you drive? It's all, it's very easy to become attached to things. Even attached to things like non-tantable, things like certainty and things like, you know, predictability, it can get in your way. So learning to accept the detachment and learning to just kind of, to your point, just do what you need to do in the moment without thinking about like, well, if I sit down and write something right now, that's going to result in X or Y. Because you never know the world might open up five years later, 10 years later. But only when you're going to allow it to really be there, right? Like it's, there's all a greater plan. We just don't see it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's where mindfulness comes into play, right? I mean, that's really even shifting my mindset on social media where I've learned that I would rather have only 10 followers that I can at least engage with through authenticity than having like 100,000 that I don't even know that I can engage with that are just there to like and follow. And, you know, cool. But you get to, when you're on your deathbed, you're going to look back and say, well, what did I wish I really had, right? That's going to be those true relationships, those the true only 1000 fans that, you know, you really connect with. So, yeah, I think I think that's way more important that I wish more and more people started to understand, especially in the culture with TikTok and rapid moving videos that, you know, it's all a dangerous fan going down, going down the drain. Oh my gosh, yes. Cool. So let's, let's talk about the mindfulness. So you wrote a book, take us through that. It just recently came out. How, how was the process? Yeah. The process was probably more unique than what most people go through, get based on what I've heard. I was approached by the JJ's, which is the publishing company. They're a small publishing company based out of the UK. And it's funny because their main like niche is not really, it's more religious than spiritual. And so she, you know, Sunita, the owner and I co-owner I connected and she asked me, you know, what would you be interested in writing a book for us? And so I thought about and I was like, oh, I've got it. And what was really happening was, as I had just hired a coach and I was going through this, you know, very spiritual awakening and it was 2019. When I was getting coached for the first time myself and I thought, oh, I know, I'm gonna use this on my kids. And it worked, right? Like we thought less and we connected more. And, you know, not to say that we still don't have ugly moments but there are fewer and far between, there's a lot more compassion, there's a lot more far more understanding than I would give credit. Like then I would assume a typical like 10-year-old and seven-year-old would have. They're 10 and seven now. But I thought, why are we not doing this for kids? Why are we not teaching them this framework? And so I presented that to her and she was like, I love it. And I sat down, I meditated for like five minutes and then I swear I sat down 45 minutes and handwritten the first section of the book. Like, and it was just amazing. But I'd written it through a religious lens. And so I took it to her and she was like, you know, this is great, but I just think it's really unfair to confine it to one religion. And I was like, I completely agree. I just wrote it this way because that's your publishing house. And so after a lot of debate, we actually decided to take religion out of it and make it more spiritual, make it more broadly appealing, which was very easy to do because there's just, you know, a lot of it has, I feel nothing to do with religion at all. So the idea was it's written for children more along eight to 12. Certainly younger kids can use it. It's written so that they can understand it. But honestly, I've had so many adults say, oh my gosh, this resonated with me, even though you wrote it for kids. And I think that that's kind of really cool is because if you've ever been a kid on Planet Earth, you know, it can absolutely resonate in the work. We all carry those memories from our childhood. And what triggers us is actually that inner work, right? That inner child that's still meaning to process. Let's just about the brain that I have. Those emotions. Absolutely. Yeah. Doing the work into that inner child's base. Absolutely. That's awesome. So we'll definitely link that. Where can people buy that book? Can buy it on Amazon. If you're listening in the UK, I think there's Waterstone and Foley's that you can also buy on. But it's available on Amazon UK. I believe it's Amazon South Africa as well. And Amazon US, it's called Connected, Discovering Your Inner Guides. And it's just a practical guide. It's not a story. It's meant to be loved and used and referenced because the first part is the foundational exploration of what's getting in your way, what's going to help you create that higher success. But then the next two parts are actually tips and tools meant to be used when you're feeling challenged, when you're feeling calm, how to help other people when they're feeling challenged. And so it's definitely not a book that I want people to just kind of stick on a shelf and forget about. Yeah, but it come back to you. That's awesome. So we'll definitely link that into the show. And what I love about that too is that it's giving the opportunity to kids see a light that they don't learn about in their day-to-day school. I mean, this is stuff that they're not getting taught to. And it can be tough as a parent to even have that awareness to teach, but if you can bring a resource like this into their lives, I mean, it's like you said, it's not just one person learning. It's the whole family as a unit. Also learning a lot of these concepts, which is fascinating. I kind of want to bring this full circle because I know you mentioned parenting in the beginning and kind of your relationship with your kids, but how has parenting influenced this whole journey of yours, you know, from the dentistry to now you being a transformation coach and writing this book? I think Nox said everyone should be parents, but for me, becoming a parent made me a better doctor. I remember, I think we all have cases that kind of stay with us forever. I remember this time where I saw, I don't remember the age of the child or even the gender, but they were freaking out. They had had a traumatic experience. And I, as an inexperienced, you know, fresh out of dental school, I just sat there and was like, I don't know how I could see them. Like there's, I don't know how I'm supposed to do anything. And there was just not a lot of compassion. And at the time, it was very black and white. Like either cooperate or I can't see you, right? And now, after having gone through depression and, you know, exploring spirituality and mindfulness and again, becoming a parent and recognizing that when a child is crying or acting out, it's in need of that they have. And I, you know, I send compassion to that child that, you know, that patient fairly often because I could have served them better. And, you know, that it just, that was the best that I had in that moment. And so I send them compassion now, right? But I think parenting has an interesting way for even being an antinocal. I know you've got some, you know, amazing nephews that, you know, they probably bring out the best in you and they also are probably your best teachers, right? In terms of just life in general, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. You know, kind of even just talking about hierarchy of life in a way, right? You see them living their inner lives with no fear, seeing all facets of life, right? You know, we get so put in a box as we grow up, you know, we get trained to not say certain things, political correctness, but with kids, it's kind of just, it's reality, it's authenticity, you know, and there's a lot that you can, there's a lot you can draw from that. And, you know, I'm not a parent now, maybe in the near future. But, yeah, I'm excited to learn. And I think that's one of the things that gets me excited about thinking about having kids in the future is, you know, not only being a mentor, but also just learning, right? And just seeing like, man, how do I get back to that? How do I bring my inner child out a little bit more and enjoy this one life that we had that we all seem to be just rushing through and have a tough time slowing down and really appreciating all the moments. So, yeah. Absolutely. I was gonna say a foundational principle that trained coaches work off of is that everyone's a student and everyone's the master, right? And I think there's a tendency for people to be dismissive of kids because they're kids. But really, they are our greatest teachers. So, you know, just kind of bridging back the coaching as well, being a parent and being able to recognize that even though you may be struggling, you're also teaching the coach, the coach is learning from the client as well. Yeah. You see, I know something you're really into as well is philanthropy and kind of how it ties into wellness. Take us through what philanthropy means to you and, you know, kind of how it, how it can be a fundamental aspect of people's lives. Yeah. You know, philanthropy is important from mindset in that it allows us to have a high dose of what a friend of mine calls vitamin G. Grab two. It's not my term, vitamin G. It's Dr. Jeffrey Tumlin actually says it all the time and it's vitamin G gratitude, yeah. So, you know, vitamin G and vitamin C is another one of his and he, it's context. So, you know, it's very easy for us to kind of have positive adaptation, right? We just get used to our surroundings. We get used to having what we have, even though it's something that we were maybe jonesing for 10 years ago, you know, we get it and it quote, unquote, makes us happy for a while and we get used to it and then it's not really a thing anymore. Philanthropic is a great way to, it's a powerful antidote to positive adaptation. It allows us to have context for, you know, you may have a leaky toilet but that's kind of winning, right? When you look at the general population of the world. 100%. But if you don't have that philanthropic lens, you might not get to physiologically feel it as often or in the way that you would otherwise. So, it's, I mean, I would say it's a very physiologic reaction too, which makes it easy, right? That gratitude really feeling it and feeling that dopamine and feeling that serotonin and feeling all of those just wonderful, wonderful things, it's important. And I think that's why a lot of successful people, truly successful people, they're not hesitant to get back. It's not about me, it's about all of us. So, philanthropy is absolutely important. Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things that I think a lot of people are cautious of when they think philanthropy is money. Oh, I'm just giving money away to a charity and then you see scams and oh, well, how do I know that my money is actually being taken to the right place and being used for good? And you know, a lot of times like, I don't know, I don't donate money ever to charities, but I try to put action into my life in terms of philanthropy, right? So, one of the things that I do is, I'll keep like a snack box in the back of my car. So whenever I'm driving an homeless person's kind of on the road, I'll always make sure to give something, right? And it's never me trying to tell people, like, hey, this is what you can do small things, but hoping that that action can at least inspire others, right? And it's just that gratitude. Like for me, one of my biggest causes hunger, you know, it's also a big reason why I fast once a week. You know, sure, there's all the scientific benefits and all that, but the main reason I do it honestly is to feel what other people, but there are a lot of people in this world go through. And to have that gratitude when your next meal comes, right? Like I fasted it, I broke my fast this morning and that banana that I ate is just, it's unbelievable, right? You're like, you have a newfound appreciation for food, the life you're living, and how it's connected to everything, right? The fact that I'm even a physician, the fact that I have great friends and family, I mean, you can just keep going and going and going and going and realize how many positives you have in your life. And so that's what I try to tell people, like, you know, I feel like we tend to put gratitude in a box again. I keep coming back to that word of box, but I feel like we've used gratitude so much. And it's like, oh, it's just be grateful, and be grateful, wake up, and say grateful things. And you know, we get sick and tired of that term because there's no real intention behind the gratitude, right? But if you can actually do some sort of action that you have put as a foundation, that you truly believe in, right? Doesn't have to be hungry, it could be a soup kitchen, it could be working with kids, it could be working with a spina bifida camp, it could be, you know, whatever it might be. But as long as you came up the idea to put your life into that perspective, I think that's where that true change and gratitude come from, right? And that's like the one takeaway, I really try to instill in people is that you are in control of your gratitude, right? Don't let people in their morning routines and all that. I mean, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. But you are in control in the end, so yeah, I like that. And I tell people too, like, we tend to shoot all over ourselves. Like, you should be grateful, you should, you know, you should be grateful for your figure, you should be grateful that you're here to go. But the thing is, and I talk about it in my book with the kids is it's like, you can keep a gratitude journal or have a practice of reflection that's gratitude themed. But if you don't really feel it and you're just kind of naming, oh, I'm grateful for my health, I'm grateful for my backpack. It really doesn't do anything. Right. So I love what you said about finding a cause that really resonates with you. For me, it's education. You know, 50% of all Indian fifth graders can't read at a fifth grade level. And considering that that's where a huge chunk of underserved kids are in the population, I'm thinking, and the COVID pandemic has really, really made that a lot worse for, I mean, kids in general, but specifically for kids who have lack of access, right? That to me is my calling. And so I spend a lot of time working for an organization called Brotham, which is, again, geared at education, they also have vocational programs. And you mentioned like money. One of the many, many, many things I love about Brotham is that their methods are backed by research. They're scalable, you know, you can teach a child to read in 50 days, how crazy are that. But their overhead costs are so low. I think it was like 8%. It's a, and which is unheard of. I mean, they've won awards for how efficient they are and how effective they are. And so, you know, it's funny. I was talking to one of my cousins who is an investment banker. She's got her first big girl job. And she was telling me like, I think a lot of 30-somethings are not close to the idea of philanthropic giving or even philanthropic ways to, like, to your point, action, right? We just don't know where to go. And I encourage people, you know, to start with where you said, think about what is really something that's going to resonate with you. And just move out from there. Talk to people about, you know, hey, if hunger resonates with you and it resonates with me, what are you doing? Well, what, you know, you might, you never know. Follow this breadcrumbs, do your research. It doesn't necessarily even have to be very intensive research, but do something because the right things will fall into place as long as the intent is there. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. That's great. That's great. It's just a great concept to bring up and talk about. And hopefully people will resonate with that. You know, I love asking people who are really into the deep perspective as you are. I mean, this whole conversation has been awesome. And I know I've been following your journey on Instagram and things. And it's safe to say that you are continuing to develop, right? And there's a lot that you've learned throughout this process. Looking back, you know, you see a five-year-old team, what advice would you give her? You've got it all. You've got it all. You have the capability. You have, you know, everything that you need inside you. The happiness is not going to be found externally. But anything and everything you could possibly need one or have is just right in there. And you just got to trust it. You know, you've got to, that's, I mean, I would tell her, you're amazing just the way you are. Like, it's just, it's really mind-blowing to me when I think about all the self-doubt. I mean, junior high is a time where I think it was just hell for everybody, right? Like, it's just the worst ever in terms of just the self-doubt and self-esteem. And, you know, it's, it's crazy to think how many people still take that middle school experience and then continue to live it, right? Like, you're not enough, you're not enough, you're not enough, comparatitis, comparatitis, comparatitis. So that's, yeah, that's, that's really what I would. And I still remind myself, there's definitely, I'm sure you have these days too, where you kind of wake up and you're like, what am I doing? Like, I messed up or I, you know, whatever. And we're just having these human moments. But I think what's been so helpful for, for me at least is a lot of our energy gets depleted when we fight those emotions, right? It physiologically feels like it can, so you want to push it away. But if we can learn to just, oh, that doesn't feel very good. Can we learn to sit with it and not fight it? Eventually, it kind of just releases. Now, this is obviously not related to actual clinical depression and clinical, you know, I'm talking about functional adults, you know, that are, that are living life and, and don't have any of those diagnoses. I always have to, I feel like I have to always say that. Yeah. No, that's, that's beautiful. So, awesome. Well, this had an awesome episode. What is next for you? You know, what are, do you have any short-term goals, long-term goals or another book that you have in mind? I mean, that must have been a stressful process. I don't know if you have one now, but what's, what's next? I really don't know, maybe a podcast. It seems like it's a fun thing to do, so I don't know, I might try my hand at it. But I think right now the book is so new that I'm just trying to enjoy that process and enjoy the coaching, you know, speaking engagements, but I, you know, what fills my cup is, no matter what I do, I mean, if I'm helping people be the best versions of themselves and help them create what they identify as transformational success, then that's a win. Awesome. Well, hey, if you ever do a podcast, you're a great communicator, so I don't think you'd have any trouble. It's a fun thing to do, the networking is awesome, and you get the chance to hopefully, you know, broadcast to a good audience that can learn. So it's definitely a cool experience. So yeah, that's awesome. I'm excited to see what you have in store, and you know, I'll follow your journey, we'll put your Instagram and your other socials in the links as well. But where can people find you? I'll link to Instagram, and that's pretty much it. Oh, and my website is drcmaticide.com. So those are the three main areas to find me. Cool, all right. Well, we'll definitely put those in there. And the last question we ask everyone is, how do we put the health back in health care? How do we put the health back in health care? I really feel like the self-care is health care. We've got to take care of ourselves so that we can be the best doctors for our patients, the best, you know, leaders for our staff and our team, you know, the best in every walk of life. And, you know, the people that are in our lives deserve the best version of ourselves, but importantly, you know, we deserve the best versions of ourselves. And I feel like, you know, as much as people have this tendency to want to compartmentalize and go, this is work and this is home. That next level doctor is the one that is like, really taking care of themselves on a spiritual level, a physical level and emotional level. They're making time for movement, making time for connection, making time for philanthropy, because their cups being full is what really allows them to doctor without a bias or without judgment, right? They're really there for the patient and able to support them when they're healing journey. I couldn't have said it better. I was so vulnerable to send it there. So, thanks, Eva. Really, really, really appreciate you coming on here. Yeah. Yeah, thank you for having me. It was so good to see you and to have this time, yeah, I think. Absolutely. Thank you so much for tuning into that episode. I hope you all enjoyed it. One of the things that I took away from my discussion with SEMA is that we should all be able to connect the different facets in our lives and try to optimize and improve that. And, you know, understanding that they're all connected are professional and personal lives are truly connected. And even though a lot of people say, you know, you should have a work-life balance, which I do believe is true. I do think that one can affect the other. And if we choose to meditate on them and understand why it is the way we think and how we can improve our habits and our relationships, not only to others, but also ourselves, we can truly optimize and increase our fulfillment and joy in our own lives. Now, if you enjoy this episode, please go ahead and share it on social media, you know, through TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, whatever it is that you use, getting the word out there, getting the messages across that we're trying to share, really does help us. If you have the ability to, please give us a five-star review and bright new review as well. Now, as you know, the disclaimer, everything in this podcast is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute the price of medicine and we are not providing medical advice. No physician, patient, relationship is formed, and anything discussed in this podcast does not represent the views of our employers. We recommend that you seek the guidance of your personal physician regarding any specific health related issues. Now, know you guys are missing all too much for the last two weeks, but don't worry. We will come at you next week with a lessons learned.