131. The History of Fats, Deconstructing Seed Oils & Omega 3's and 6's | Udo Erasmus, PhD

Hello everyone, I'm Dr. Darsha, and I'm Dr. Altamash Raja, and welcome to Medicine Redefined. A podcast where we will explore the often overlooked but necessary components of health, what we consider to be the fundamentals. We will investigate topics and practices that can give you and your patients the best chance to optimize a healthy lifestyle. It's time to move the needle forward and put the health back in healthcare. Hey everyone, today our guest is none other than Dr. Udo Erasmus. Now Udo has introduced the importance of essential fatty acids, derived from organic flax seeds to the entire world. He has pioneered methods for producing unrefined oils with strictly health in mind, and those methods are still used by manufacturers today for flax and other oils. In the mid-1980s, Udo popularized the use of flax oil through exhaustive itinerary of public lectures, which then led to TV and radio interviews. He also had a groundbreaking book called Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill, and that became the industry's Bible on fats. He then developed an oil blend, which was an improvement on flax oil, just so he could better make the ratio of omega-3 to omega-6. In this episode, you will hear the zest Udo has at the young age of 81 Udo is still out there informing everyone about the importance of essential fatty acids in omega-3s and 6s. In this episode, we'll start out with the history of fats. As many of you know, in the 70s, fats were villainized, and then they became something that was really good for our health. And now, there's so much controversy, or seed oils good or bad for us. What is the proper omega-3 to 6th ratio? How can we even quantify these things and make sure that we're getting the good oils in us? So this is going to be part one of our interview with Udo, and next week we'll come back with a part two talking more about the roles of essential fatty acids and omega-3s and 6s in different medical conditions. Hope you guys enjoy this one. We have made it. All right. So we're all in your team. You're just a young shit. Yes, right. That is right. That is right. Oh, man. Okay. Well, I'm 81. Yeah. I'm 31. Yeah. All right. Have respect for age now. That's right. That's right. Awesome. Unless, unless the age of people are really stupid in which case, forget it. No, I think you got a lot of wisdom to share with the listeners. So I'm excited to delve into this one. Let's see what happens. Alrighty. Well, hey, we're on Zoom. This is already recording. So let's just, we're going to, we're going to keep all this pretty intro stuff into the recording, because I think the universe deserves it after how much technical support we need to go through. Yeah. Oh, right. Oh, man. We try to get on Zencaster. That didn't work. It troubles you for about an hour. And here we are on Zoom. So. Let's make the rest of us. Are in a half. It's an hour and a half. I want to figure it out. Okay. Now, and now we've made it. So, so let's do this. All right. So for the listeners, we've got Udo Rasmus in front of us here in front of me on the screen. And you are an expert in almost all things. We're going to have fun with this one. This might even turn into a two-parter. We'll see. But you know, I think an interesting place to start Udo would be the story of fats, right? Because I think when a lot of people hear fat in America, those who may not be knowledgeable might say, Oh, fats aren't a good thing, right? You're supposed to be on a low-fat diet. But then you also have this other camp who now is understanding that, Hey, fats are actually good for you, right? Like we need this for hormones. Yeah. We need this as part of our vitality. Can you take us through the history of fats, right? From the 70s to the 90s to now. What kind of reputation hasn't gone through? Well, I'll go even further back. Okay. As long as there've been living things, there's been fat as part of the structure of living creatures. So you really have to go back four and a half billion years. Or however, however long it was, right? And so, you know, and then if you look at when creatures eat raw food, like in nature, all the creatures eat fresh whole raw organic. And that's life's standard for food for creatures that eat fresh whole raw organic. Well, in every cell of any food that you eat, there's, there are fats in every cell. In fact, they make the membrane that keeps the inside inside and the outside outside. And that make, you know, that, that makes things come in. And things go out. Through the membrane. And the membrane. So the membrane is super important for anything that's alive. And it's made mostly out of fats. It's got protein and a tube. But it's mostly made out of fats. And they're particular kind of fat cause called phospholipids, because they create a structure with fats where you have a water soluble and an oil soluble part. And that gets pretty nerdy, I know. But, but so, but every cell in every creature has fat as part of its requirement. Then when you get into more into the animals, fat has always been the main fuel of the animals. For instance, a human being, you know, most people are lower in fat than we are. Human beings have more fat on their body normally than any other creature. That's because we don't have any hair on our on our on our skin to keep us warm. So we have deposits of fats under our skin that keep us warm. That's our fur, right? It's made out of fat. And you store it as fat because fat has four has nine calories program. Whereas carbohydrates only have four calories program. So it is a more efficient way to store fuel. Right? And it turns out that if a human being. Carb loads like they used to say to do before you went running marathons, you can only store one pound of carbs as animal starch or glycogen in your liver and your muscles. Only one pound. Then you go running your marathon and you burn it up in 20 miles. Then you hit the wall, if you don't get to take sugar drinks and stuff, then you hit the wall and then you drag your butt across the finish line. Because the marathon is 26 miles. And when you run out of carbs, then it takes time to turn on the fat burning. On the other hand, if you have eight percent body fat, which is pretty lean. And you burn and you wait normal weight, 140, 154 pounds or 70 kilograms. And you burned half of that. In other words, 4% of your body weight. As fat, you burn half of the fat that you're storing in your under your skin. And you could run 300 miles on that. And so when we began to work with oils, we told the marathoners, you know, you're getting the wrong advice. You should carb deplete before you run your race. Because what you want to do is you want to carb deplete because then your fat burning mechanisms are turned on. And then you run the entire race on fats and not everybody followed us. But the ones who did, they came back after they said, that was awesome. I felt after I finished the marathon, like I had enough energy to run another one. Can I ask you though, is there a point where it switches though from glycogen, carb, fuel, over two fat, like once the glycogen is used up? Yeah, that's, and that's why it takes time and that's why people get hit the wall. I see. Because once the carbs are burned, that's when you fat fat burning begins to be turned on, but it takes time. And in fact, carbs, this is how stupid that that advice was. When you have carbs in your body, they turn off fat burning and they turn on fat production. And if you eat more carbs than you burn, then they're going to turn the excess turns into fats. So I call carbs undeclared fats. Because your body turns them into fats, then you have the fats for storage, right? But they turn off fat burning and turn on fat production. Omega threes, on the other hand, turn on fat burning and turn off fat production in the body. So, and when people say, well, if I eat fat, I'm going to get fat. That sounds like the logic of a six-year-old. Because he eats fat, get fat, right? This is simple logic. It's just that's not how the body works. E carbs get fat. And that's because your blood sugar goes up if you eat too much and then insulin drives it into the cells. And in the cells you burn, your cells burn what they need. And anything that's left over has to be turned into fat in the body. And then when and and the body is quite good at doing that. So by the time the excess carbs have been burnt turned into fat, now you have low blood sugar. And now your body screams that you eat or die. And then you go, you start eating, overeating, gorging because it takes time to digest the fats and the carbs and absorb them. You break them down and absorb them. It takes time. By the time your blood sugar is normal, you've already eaten too much. And so you've already just started the next cycle of what we call carbon diction. Right, which is you eat too much high blood sugar that can be toxic, insulin saves your from drives it into the cells. In the cells, it's burnt to the extent that you can that you're actually active. And the rest is turned into fat. And now you have blood blood sugar again. And then you have cravings again. And so that cycle has been measured as being somewhere between four and eight times more addicting than cocaine. So that was always always bad advice, right? The eat fats. No, but then it comes to when it comes to fats. Well, you know, I wrote the book that I wrote was called fats that heal fats to kill. So there are good fats and there are bad fats. And you have to know which ones are good and bring them in. I have to know which ones are bad and keep them up. And so, you know, so that's so saturated fats. Those are hard at room temperature mono unsaturated fats. They're liquid at room temperature about hard in the fridge. And polyunsaturated fats, which include the essential fatty acids that are really the most interesting part. And those are liquid, both at room temperature and in the fridge. So and that's because the molecules of saturated fats, their straight chains, the crystallize. So they harden at at a higher temperature. Then the ones that are bent and so they don't they don't stack to weather together well. So that's why they're liquid at higher temperature at even at lower temperatures still, right? Got it. But of the whole. And then you have trans fats, which are manufactured, although there's some in dairy naturally, but those were industrial fats. And they caused lots of problems, including a doubling risk of a heart attack and interfering with immune function and interfering with reproduction in both male and female animals. And they take you towards diabetes and so lots of lots of problems. But so so there are lots of different kinds of fats and oils, which together are called lipids. And and if you look at all the fats, there are hundreds of different kinds of fats made out of fatty acids, which are the building blocks of fats. They're only two that are really important. They're called essential and essential when you talk about nutrients means this is a nutrient that you have to have to live and be healthy. You can't make it from anything else in your body. So therefore you have to bring it in from outside. Either is food as food or as supplement. That's the first part. The second part of the definition is if you don't get enough of any essential nutrient, you cannot stay healthy. Your health will deteriorate. You will get deficiency symptoms. These are degenerative in nature and they get worse with time. And if you don't get enough of any essential nutrient long enough, you die. These are the required building blocks for body constructs to the body function. So and then the third part of the definition of essential is if your health is deteriorating because you're not getting enough. But before you die, because death by definition is not reversible. So before you die, you bring enough of the essential nutrient that's too low in the diet, you bring enough back into your body. Then all the problems that come from not getting enough are reversed because life knows what to do with these essential nutrients provided. We take responsibility here at our mouth to make sure that optimum amounts of all essential nutrients land in our body. So our body can make an optimum health body. And that definition fits 18 minerals, 13 vitamins, 90 central amino acids that come from proteins and the two essential fatty acids that come from oils most. We call omega three alpha linoleic acid and omega six linoleic acid. If you get both of those in the right ratio because they compete in the body. If you get enough of both into your body, your body can make what the fish oils contain and what the krill oil contains and what the algae oils contain and what the muscle oils contain. The body can make literally dozens is probably hundreds because this is ongoing research coming up with new fines just about every month. The presence of what we're called icosanoids or prostaglannins, prostocycle and stromboxins, leukotryines in three different series that play a role in hormone like regulating functions in every cell in your body 24, 7, 365 life long. That's the most important moment to moment hormones. And by the way, I remember when I talked to an Ayurvedic physician. They said to me, you know, in Ayurvedic medicine, they don't diss the fats, they don't diss the oils. What they said is they said, when your fats go off, your hormones go off and when your hormones go off, everything goes off. The first thing they would make sure when somebody came to them sick is to make sure that they were getting their their fats made right and used right and eaten in adequate quantities. So omega six was established as an essential nutrient kind of in 1929, 1930, but the proof for it happened in 1968 when we started doing intravenous nutrition because then you could do a controlled study. You know, you take it away and problems happen and you put it back and the problems get resolved. That's how you find out omega three was they talked about it, but they mixed it up with another linolenic. There's an alpha linolenic and a gamma linolenic acid, the gamma linolenic acid is actually, you know, omega six derivative alpha linolenic acid is the omega three essential fatty acid. And for years, they didn't make a distinction between the two. So they talked about it in the 30th, but it wasn't established until 1981 that alpha linolenic acid is also an essential nutrient. And I found that out. I got poisoned in 1980. That's when I became really interested in nutrition. I had a lot of biochemistry and genetics background. So I had a good foundation for trying to figure out how to get my healthy because the doctors didn't have anything that they could do for it. And the year after I got poisoned omega three was established as essential. I found out 99% of the population doesn't get enough for optimum health. Every cell needs it. There are five times more sensitive to damage than the omega sixes. So they're a nightmare to work with. And I got super excited because as oh my god, if we could make oils, these oils with health in mind, and we could bring back the missing omega three, oh my god, we could help almost everybody. And I got so excited because helping this just feels good from here, you know, from here. I just got so excited. That was the drive for the whole project of making flax seed oil in 1986. And then I became omega 60 fishing because the balance is poor between omega three and six. And then working with the blend where the omega three and six are properly balanced. And I've been working that came out in 80s, 86 for flax oil, 93, 94 for the blend. Wow. And then to go back to the story of what happened in history, when we started working with oils, we were probably at the height of fat phobia. The McGovern report on nutrition and health was published in 1977 and kind of gate became publicized more in 1979. And they said, fats are the worst thing. You should have the least of them. So they put it on top of the food pyramid. They put carbs at the bottom of the food you should eat the most of. And then we people started being given that information and a food pyramid was built and that was widely disseminated. And in 20 years overweight in the United States went from 25 to 60% of the population in just 20 years. And nobody questioned the concept. So we were at the height of fat phobia. And I went to Vegas one year to talk to the international society of vegetarian something. So it was I can't remember what the name was, but the international organization, they're like several thousand people there. And when I got and they invited me to talk about oils, because they were all doing 10% or less of their calories from fats, like the predicate diet. You know, and so I got up and I said to them, how many of you are on low fat diets and just about all the hands went up, right? Because that's that that was the deal, right? So I kind of knew the answer. And I said, how many of you have dry skin and almost all the hands went up? Wow. And I said the mistake you're making is that you're taking too little fat. They have to be the right kind of fats. They can't be damaged. They're very easy to damage. So they have to be made with health and mind. And when you get enough, when you optimize your intake, you will find out that your skin becomes soft and velvety because omega three and omega six together, form a barrier in the skin against the loss of moisture. And so your skin becomes soft smooth and velvety. You need to at least drink less water too. And and if your skin is dry, it means you need more oil. And that shows up in a desert more than the tropics. And it shows up in winter more than in summer because in winter, you burn more oil to create heat to keep warm. So so in winter, lots of people in in North America, especially the northern states, you know, dry skin. Oh, yeah, skin gets much drier in winter. That's because you're not getting enough of the right kind of oil. And you need more like I use about four tablespoons in winter when it's cold. So to get soft smooth, velvety skin and two or three and summer to get soft smooth, velvety skin because in winter, I burn more of it for heat. And skin, why skin gets some blast and loses them first. Well, nature is pretty smart. You can live with dry skin. But if your heart dried out or your liver dried out, that would that would check you out. Right. So so nature in its wisdom gives them to the inner organs first. And skin only gets them if the rest of the body has what it needs. So when your skin of soft smooth and velvety, you know that your body is tagged up optimally on the essential fatty acids. Very nice. So yeah, go ahead. So you're at the conference. Yeah. And so yeah, so yeah. And so so basically it was the height of fat phobia. People said, if you eat fat, you're going to get fat. People people thought all fats are bad. And the problem was and I and I. You know, part of the reason why I ended up doing so much work on fats is because when I was when I got poisoned by pesticides and I had cancer to look forward to. And the doctor said we don't have anything for pesticide poisoning. You know, that's interesting about the responsibility of people who can throw this throw this stuff in the environment, but they don't have a fix for the problems that causes pesticides are only made to kill things. And the chemistry between microbes and plants and animals and humans is similar enough that if it's poisonous for one creature, there's a really good chance that it's poisonous to many other creatures that you're actually not trying to kill. It's a good point if I can just stop you there because a lot of people don't think about that, right? They think, oh, I'm eating a fruit. So, you know, it's as it's a lesser species than I am, but regardless, like you said, the biochemistry is the same, right? So if it's going to be a pretty close. Yeah, yeah, pretty close that. Yes, guess what? You know, if they say, well, pretty soon we're all going to be eating worms and insects, right? Well, that's what we make those pesticides against, but they have all the same stuff in it that we need to build our body. So why would we think that if it kills the pests, the pests, why would we think it would be harmless to us? Right, that's just like, that's just like not thinking, right? Yeah, right. So, and so, so I was reading the research and I got stuck on fats and oils because it was so confusing. And the thing that really got me is read a study that said omega six is essential. I already said what that means essential means can't make it got to have it got to get it from outside. If you don't get enough you, your health goes down. If you don't get enough long enough, you die. But if you bring it back before you die, all of the problems that come from not getting enough are reversed. So omega six is an essential nutrient, right? And the very next study I read it said omega six gives you cancer and kills you. And my head exploded. This is in the 80s or about that time. This was B, well, 1980, I got poisoned. So those between 1980 and 1980. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And my head just explode. It's like, wait a minute. You can't have it both ways. I have to have it. And then it gives me cancer. There's got to be something else going on. And that contradiction that drove me nuts was what forced me to look deeper into the question of well, how are we making these oils? Right. Because eating seeds and nuts was actually associated with longevity and better health. So how come omega sixes are going to give me in cancer, give me kill me and give me cancer and kill me when omega sixes are essential. Just like the other, just like the 18 minerals, certain vitamins, 90 centimeter amino acids and the other and the two fatty acids. How come it's how come a how can it do both? And that got me looking into how oils are made. So when they're made the industry and that started about in 1900, maybe a little before that, but it started getting bigger and bigger 1900s. So what they and the industry was interested in long shelf life. Because when you can get a long shelf life, which by nature, oils don't have oils have a short shelf life because they're damaged, the central fatty acid are damaged by light. By oxygen and by high temperature. So they're very, very vulnerable. They're like, they're like, they're like salad, perishable goods. They need to be taken care of. So. And so the industry wants a long shelf life on the oils because when you have a long shelf life, you could make it where you are in. We're in in Pennsylvania. Yeah. And you could sell it in Tokyo and you could sell it in Shanghai and you could sell it in Berlin. You get a global market, but to get a global market, you got to have at least a two year shelf life. And by nature, oils are more sensitive than that unless you sell, you know, ship seeds and nuts everywhere because seeds and nuts are protected by nature's packaging quite, quite nicely. So, so in order to get the shelf life and they weren't thinking about health. In order to get a long shelf life, they found out that if you treat an oil or the seed, you know, you squish the seed or you dissolve it out with solvents. You treat that oil with sodium hydroxide, which is a corrosive base, very corrosive. That's what you clean your sink pipes with when they clog up. It literally burns through all the stuff. I just put some in my bathtub because my bathtub was draining properly, right. It's called drain. And that's very corrosive base, very intense. If you put it on your skin, it'll burn your skin. It's really intensely, intensely, intensely toxic, right. So they do that. Then they treat it with phosphoric acid. That's used commercially to to degrees windows. And again, they take stuff out. Then they bleach the oil with bleach in place because any color molecules in the oil will absorb light and the light will then damage the oil. And when they bleach the oil, then it goes rancid and smells bad. So they have to deodorize it or I used to say, de stinkerize it. And to deodorize it, they're actually boiling off the damaged molecules. And that's done at frying temperature. So when oils are deodorized, that's done somewhere between 320 and 450 degrees Fahrenheit. Because those are the frying temperatures. And when all of that is done, you end up with an oil that has a half to 1% damaged molecules. Damaged molecules from the processing that never existed in nature. That therefore life never really made a breakdown cleanup program. Why? Because why would nature make something like that if it never existed in nature? Sure, right? Yeah. So. And then what happens is you eat those and they go, they, they go into a place where an essential fatty acid is supposed to be. And in that space, they occupy that space. So the, the essential fatty acid can't go there, but they can't do the work of the essential fatty acids. So you get interference with what needs to be going on in that space. And you get in a tablespoon that. Sorry, a tablespoon that is 1% damaged. You will get. Well, I should ask you how many, what do you think? How many molecules, how many damaged molecules have been a tablespoon of an oil that's 1% damaged? How much? Yeah, this is a pop quiz. I think you just told me this offline, right? Is it 10 million? Or is it more? So, okay. So, okay, let's, let's just say that's your answer. Okay. I did tell you. And you weren't listening. So, no, so, and, and people, and when I ask people and I do that on purpose. Because we don't know. We don't know how big molecules are. So it's hard to say how many molecules are in the tables, but most people don't know, right? There's a way to figure it out. But, you know, if you do chemistry, they explain it to you and how do you do that? So, they always estimate at least a billion times too low. So the actual number is 60 quintillion damaged molecule in a tablespoon of an oil 1% damaged. And that's more than a million damaged molecules for every one of your bodies 60 trillion cells. Okay. I was way off. Yeah. Well, I added some other numbers. So, and then I say to them, well, look, you know, you're flying home for the holidays. And you're about to get on the airplane. And somebody who always tells the truth says to you, oh, by the way, did you know that your chance of crashing and dying on your flight home is a billion times higher than they told you it was or you thought it was. Would you get on the airplane? Absolutely not. Yeah. And I said to me in Ireland, I said, I would canoe back to Canada because my chances wouldn't be good. But I think they'd be, I would take that chance rather than. And so, and the reason why I say that is that we're actually, when you, when you get the answer to that question, you know, you realize, and people realize when they're, when they're talking about it, we underestimate the damage we're doing to, we're doing to ourselves by using these oils. Is it billion times we underestimated by a billion times? It's, we're doing a billion times worse problem for ourselves when we do that. Then we think, and most people use two to four tablespoons of oil. Right? And then the oils and plastic bottles and oil swell plastics or plastic leeches into oil. That's not supposed to not be in the body either. Right? And there's lots of issues now about microplastics and, and, you know, in the environment and in the food. And then these come from non-organically grown seeds. So you got pesticides in the oil. And one of the reasons why they heat the oil to frying temperature in deodorization is to get rid of half the pesticides. I, I, I talked to a scientist and researcher for the oil, American oil chemist society, the umbrella organization for, for that industry and asked him, why do you do that? Why, when you know it does damage, he said, well, because we can get rid of half the pesticides, you know, and I didn't say anything. But in my head, I'm going, well, I've been poisoned by pesticides. Half of the pesticides stay in the oil. I didn't even know there were pesticides in the oil at that time. So I said to him, well, why did you start with organically grown seeds? Because then you don't have to have any pesticides in it. And then he got mad at, then he got mad at me. And he said, I don't know what your problem is. The oil is 99% good. It's only 1% damage. And if you got 99% on an exam, you're damn happy, wouldn't you? I used to get 100% in genetics because I loved the topic. And so I wasn't as impressed. But then I thought, well, maybe I'm overreacting. It's only 1%. And that's when I did the math. 60 quintillion. That's a six followed by 19 zeros. One tablespoon in one table spoon, if it's 1% damage. And I came to the conclusion, I can't get healthy on oils like that. We should make them with health in mind. And so we developed a very, very tight system. Where the oil from the time it's in the seed, where it's well packaged by nature, has a pretty good shelf life. Nature's packaging is quite amazing. Through the pressing, the filtering, the settling, the filling. Till it's in a brown glass bottle. Nitrogen flushed in a box to cut out all the light in the fridge at the factory. During that whole process, no light, no oxygen and low temperature has to be applied so that the oil does not get damaged by light oxygen and heat. And oils are the most sensitive of our nutrients. They need the most care. They get the least because they're so, so, so sensitive. And omega three, five times more sensitive than omega six. And so as a result of all of that, more health problems come from damaged oil than any other part of nutrition. And more health benefits come from making the oil change that your body needs, from these damaged oils, and from frying with oils, which is the dumbest thing we've ever inventist to do for health. To food, if health is what we want. So they have to be made with health in mind if you want them to support your health. That's right. And the reason, and the reason why, you know, there was omega six is essential and it gives you cancer and kills you. It's not the omega sixes that give you cancer and kill you. It's the damage done by processing or food preparation. But then when people do studies, they don't point that out. And you do hear, here's what omega sixes have some problems. They cause some inflammation, they cause some chronic information. They can get you cancer. It's not the omega sixes. It's the damage done by the processing that should have been blamed for it. And most of the people who say don't use seed oils and don't use omega sixes. They've done half the homework, but they didn't do all the homework. We did that homework 40 years ago and developed a way to make oils with health in mind. Right. So let me ask you this. Yeah. When we talk about damaged oils, you know, people will always try to say, well, canola oil and seed oil, right, is worse than just using avocado oil or olive oil. Now, when it comes to the processing, I'm assuming all of these oils are at least going through some of that processing where there's damaged fats. Is that correct? And not not entirely, but most of them are. If it's if you're talking about sodium hydroxide phosphoric acid bleached and then heated to frying temperature extra virgin olive oil has not gone through that process because it's pressed from the flesh of the origin floated off on water. When you're talking about avocado oil, nobody knows what they do because there are no standards for avocado oil or grape seed oil, no standards. And you know, they you can take rotten, you can take a rotten avocado and basically do a chemical feast on and get some oil out of it. That oil may not be in really good shape, but you can still get something out of the garbage and then sell it for money. Now that's kind of that's that's what they do. So I would say to people eat the you know, eat the avocados. Forget the oil. Right. But if the oils are colorless, odorless and tasteless, which most of these highly processed oils are, then you know they've gone through those four processes. Okay. And then are you getting omega threes as well from any of these oils or is it primarily omega sexes that come through the seed oils and whatnot. The second thing is that what the exact percentage of damages half a percent, one percent, maybe even two percent depends on what the makeup of the oil is. Because if it's saturated fats, they're pretty stable, mono unsaturated fats are two and a half times less stable than that olive oils, mostly mono unsaturated. So it's a relatively stable oil, you can keep it in the cupboard, you don't have to put it in the fridge. Omega sixes are two and a half times more sensitive to damage than omega nine or the mono unsaturated. And omega three is five times more sensitive than omega sixes. Two damage done by light oxygen heat. So in some oils, pretty much all oils have some omega sixes in them. And it depends what the ratio is omega three to omega six to omega nine to saturate it. What's going to be the composite effect on the stability of the oil. Okay. But canola oil, for instance, has 10% omega three. 10% omega three is five times more sensitive to damage than omega six. It's got 24% omega six. So the way I would guess how sensitive it is. Well, it's kind of like having an oil that's 75% omega six. Because omega three is a five times more sensitive. So 10 times five is 50 and then 24. Okay. Soybean oil. 57% omega six. Maybe eight percent omega three. So 57 plus 24, 57, 77, 81. Pretty, pretty sensitive to damage. What else? Walnut. Walnut has 50% omega six. And then somewhere between five to 11. So let's say eight again. So 50 plus 24, 74%. And you're going to be at the high end of closer to one percent and closer to half a percent. And maybe a little even higher. Hempe seed oil. Well, hemp seed oil is usually unrefined. But they do put it in plastic. That's not a good idea. But if it was, if it went through all the stuff, the other oils go through. 57% omega six and 19% omega three. So now you're talking about 57 plus 19 times three, which is like 60 57. So 57 plus 57. So it's like 114% omega six. So it's going to be even more sensitive to damage if you put it through all that other stuff. So Udo, everything you're talking about is super fascinating, right? To the general public and even us as physicians. We don't really truly realize the roles of fats and the different composition of fats and nutrition. And, you know, honestly, I've been seeing feed fat as just this whole macro nutrient, right? And obviously it has some components that you touched on monoinsaturated polyunsaturated trans. And then having omega three and omega sixes. But not really realizing that there's different percentages. And a lot of people, when it comes to omega sixes and omega three is we'll talk about the perfect ratio. And for those who listen to Peter Tio, Roder Patrick, I believe they had his name Bill Harris. I think who's done work on. Also talk about how that ratio has actually been shifting. And how we used to think I believe you speak of six to one or three to one. And how we actually think it might need to be a three to two or, you know, I think my numbers might be a lot. Speaking through the understanding of what the ratio means and why it is truly important for us. Okay, so we talked about omega three alpha linoleic acid and omega six linoleic acid. Both are essential by the definition. Can't make it going to have it die if you don't get long enough. You know, reversed if you if you bring it back before you die, right? Most are essential and the body makes a whole bunch of derivatives out of it. Because we have the genes to do that in every cell that has a nucleus. But the but the enzymes, the genes that make the enzymes that convert omega six are the same genes that have the same enzymes that convert omega three. So what happens if you have a huge amount of omega six and just a really tiny amount of omega three. Then the omega three won't get converted because they get crowded out by the omega sixes. And the same thing you get too much omega three. It can crowd up to omega sixes if they're too low. And that's why the ratio is important. You need them both. They're both essential. They have some opposing functions and they kind of ride shotgun on each other. They're like a tag team, right? And like one of them omega six produces inflammation for healing. But then omega three blocks that when the healing is done. And so so so it's important that you get them right. Now what's happened is when we lived on farms. We ate different than we eat now. And in the past 100 years, our intake of omega six has doubled. And our intake of omega three has gone down to one sixth. Of the levels 150 years ago. So we have way out of balance. We got a lot of omega six and hardly any omega threes. That's a problem. So when we started making flax seed oil in 1986. The guys I've worked with said, oh, this is the best source of both essential fatty acids. I didn't think that was true because I didn't know of a traditional diet that was richer in omega threes. Then two and a half times more than omega sixes. And that seemed to me. Maybe a limit. But I didn't know. So I did an experiment on myself. I only used flax oil as my only source of fat in the diet. And within three months, I had omega six deficiency symptoms dry eyes, skipped heartbeats. Our thread is like pain in my finger joints and thin papery skin. Classic omega six deficiency symptoms. So how do you fix it? It comes from too much omega three, too little omega six. You bring up the omega sixes. So I ate a whole bunch of sunflower seeds, which only have omega sixes and no omega threes. And within a couple of weeks, all my symptoms were gone. And at that point, I said, you know, maybe flax oil is not, it's not a well balanced oil. It can actually make people omega six deficient. That's why I don't recommend it anymore. It's a blend where the omega three's and sixes, we have nine ingredients in the blend. And the ratio is twice as much omega three is omega six. And you can do that forever and never become omega six deficient. And so, so the, so the, so the issue there's a competition between them. The other issue that gets a lot of attention, people say you can't absorb the essential fatty acids, convert the essential fatty acids. Well, they, when they said and as absorb is not a problem at all, when you eat fat, but 94% is absorbed into the body and 6% ends up in your stool. So that's pretty good. That's pretty good. Except if you have celiac disease badly or cystic fibrosis, in which case you have other other things you don't digest well as well. So, but generally speaking, if you're normal, oil, oil digestion and oil absorption are not a problem. Okay. But the, then they, there's a question of the conversion. And when we came out with flax oil, the same week we came out with flax oil that we went public in 1987. Somebody in one of the official company said, the body can't convert. And that was turf protection. Okay, because before that they used to say 30% of the population can't convert enough omega three alpha linolytic acid into EPA and DHA and the official. That means 70% don't need fish all. Now they're saying, nobody can convert. But the research always said the body can convert. And what's interesting about it is nobody complains about not being able to convert omega six. But omega six is converted by the same enzymes that convert omega three. So the issue isn't that the body can't convert. The issue is that 99% of the population doesn't get enough starting material to do the conversion. And if you talk to Walter, Walter Willett, who's the head of the Harvard School of Public Health. And he's best known for outing trans fatty acids and the damage that they do. And getting the FDA to take them off the generally recognized as safe category. Somebody asked him, what would happen if your body could not convert alpha linolytic acid into EPA and DHA and without any hesitation, he said you'd be dead. The body can convert. It's not an issue and there are many, many studies have been done that show the body can convert women convert better than men. That's because when they're pregnant, they have to build a second brain in their in their womb. So it's important for survival of the species that women be better converters. Man don't get pregnant so they need a lot less DHA. And then there are a number of reasons why you can or ways that you can convert or in you can speed up or slow down conversion. For instance, if you don't have enough vitamin B3, vitamin B6, vitamin C zinc or magnesium in your diet, and there's a percentage of the population that's deficient, you slow down the conversion. If you have a lot of sugar or starch or saturated fats or mono unsaturated fats, you slow down conversion. If you have a lot of omega 6s, you slow down omega 3 conversion. If you have a lot of omega 3s, you can slow down omega 6 conversion. And then there's certain, certain drugs can slow down conversion. If you're obese, your conversion is going to be slower because that mostly comes from sugar and starches and, and, and interfering fat molecules. If you eat turmeric, the great spice from India, it increases conversion. I don't know how many other spices and herbs there are that do that, but this one does for sure. If you're plant based, you convert twice as fast. If you don't have enough in your diet, your body conserves it twice as long, so you only need half as much. Just on and on and on. There's like all kinds of, and that makes sense because all of this takes place in a context. Right. If you're dead, there's no conversion. Right. If you haven't been born, you know, if you haven't been conceived yet, there's no conversion. So, you know, and the body's made out of food, water and air. And depending on the quality of food, water and air, it's going to affect everything that goes on in your body, including the conversion of omega 3 and omega 6 to the derivatives. Right. What is the ratio that we do want to aim for? I use two to one, and that's because most people don't get enough omega 3, but also because omega 3 are a very unique molecule. They're super, super high energy. They're super important for the brain, although the brain turnover of omega 3 is only 2.4 to 3.8 milligrams a day. So it's not very much. So if you had one gram of alpha, linolytic acid, you would need less than less than a half percent conversion to get enough for your turnover, your brain turnover. And the brain has the most DHA in it. And just to clarify, it's 2 to 1, 6 to 3. No, 3 to 6. 3 to 6. Okay, more 3. Right, right, right, sorry. I'm just thinking most of the population, though, is probably flipped at this point, right? They have more 6. Well, the population is more like 10 times more omega 6, maybe 20 times, maybe for some people, even 50 times more omega 6 than omega 3. And that's way off, way off. But omega 3s have there, you know, we've done studies with athletes. We give them this blend that's that's two twice as much omega 3s omega 6. Table spoon for 50 pounds of body weight per day, because that's a ballpark optimum for skin feel. And we had them do their sport to exhaustion. Well, whatever their sport was. And within 30 days of starting to take the oil, their performance to exhaustion was up 40 to 60%. And it's the omega 3s that mostly do that. What, how's that working? What's that working on? Well, the omega 3s are very much more sensitive than omega 6s to oxygen damage, light damage. Well, in the body, they increase oxygen metabolism and metabolic rate and energy levels. You heal in a third to a half the time, you recover from fatigue quicker, those are all oxygen requiring processes. And omega 3s do that five times better than omega 6s. So that's why they, but the other thing that's interesting about it is that, you know, the way I talk about it sometimes just look your body is a fire. Fire is your energy. You want to have a good solid fire. That's your energy. That's your vitality. That's your ability to do stuff. That's what makes you capable and competent. But if you have a strong fire in your body, you're also going to have more sparks. Just like when you, you know, you build a big fire on the beach, right? You put in lots of logs and you really stoked that fire and more and more sparks, you get lots of sparks. So if you have a good fire in your body, you also need competent spark control. And we call those free radicals, oxygen free radicals, you know, oxidative stress, you know, so we talk about them that way. Well, what's interesting about omega 3s, about 80% of the omega 3s are burnt for energy as fuel in your body. And of course, they also even sell membranes and they improves cellular membrane reactions and they make hormones work better at the cell receptor level. They have lots of functions that everything that your body does gets 40 to 60% more energy. So whatever its function is, it'll do it better. But 20% of the omega 3s are not burned as fuel, 20% are converted into derivatives among which are very powerful antioxidants and anti-inflammatories that act as spark control. They're called protectants and resolvents. And that's a pretty new, they only figure that out in the past probably 10, 15 years. And so you have here, you have like if, so you have the fuel and the fuel part of the fuel gets converted into its own spark control. How cool is that? There's no other fuel molecule that does, a sugar doesn't do that, starch doesn't do that, saturated fats don't do that, mono and saturated fats don't do that. Omega 3s do that, only omega 3s. And yeah, it's really cool, right? So you get your fire and at the same time you get the spark control from that same one molecule. Well, how do you recommend people get tested, right? Like where do they start to know whether they're out of balance or the ratios way off? How or what are some telltale signs and symptoms, but also how can they actually test? Yeah, so the testing, either three ways you can test fats in your body, one is plasma, one is red blood cell membranes, and the third one is fat deposits. And you're going to get different answers unless you've been eating the same diet exactly the same diet for two years or more. You're going to have different because the plasma just tells you what you're being doing today, the blood cells tell you what you've been doing over the past 120 days. And the fat deposits tell you what's been happening over the past 16 months or more. And people used to doctors used to sell me sent me those and say what does this mean because they didn't know what the hell they were looking at. And so I basically I don't use those tests where you want to do it is you want to do it at the front end. Get the right kind of fats and what you need to do basically is optimize your intake of omega three omega six made with health and mind in the right ratio. And then you that cuts you slack on everything else that you do. So so what I do is I I develop this blend that you can't become deficient on that has that ratio of two twice as much omega three omega six. That's where we've always seen our best results and we've been working on this for like 40 years. Right we've I've been to 40 countries and we get the feedback and we read the we you know we we welcome the feedback. And so that's where we've always got the best results that's where we got the best routes results with athletes there are researchers who have different ideas. Some of them say you should have four times more omega six than omega three they call that the perfect ratio. And it's not the perfect ratio because you get better results when you when you use twice more omega three. Some people say one to one is the historical ratio that's complete bunk because your ratio depends on where where you live. You know because in the north and south poles there's more omega threes. And more omega three sources and then you go towards the equator then you get more omega sixes. Then you get to the Mediterranean get more omega nines then you get to the tropics you get more saturated fats. And in the tropics where it's hot saturated fats are cooling. So you want that. And in the north where it's cold you want warming oils and omega three's are warming oils. Right nature has right out. Now except we all live in a temperate zone now because we spend so much time indoors in air conditioning. So that whole thing of the latitudes has changed right. So you got to take you got to take that into account. Can I ask you a question here yeah you know you mentioned omega nine and I think some of our listeners might be thinking well what is that and what kind of role does it play is it similar to omega three omega six is it something that's own. No omega three means it has you know the first double bond starts at carbon three from the methylene again this is like this is techie right I love it that's like a six means the first double bond is at carbon six. From the methylene on the fatty acid and omega nine means the first double bond and the only double bond is starts at omega nine and goes to start just the omega nine from the methylene and goes to omega 10. So it's a double bond in the fatty acid chain. But omega nine is not essential because your body can make it out of sugar and starch. So when people say all the oil is incredibly good no it's not that good it's good that it's not damaged if it's extra virgin olive oil and they're not cheating on what they actually put into it which is an issue these days. But omega omega nine makes 80% of olive oil it's not essential it's only got 10% omega six and it has no omega three's at all and the other 10% is saturated fat. So it's interesting right the reason I bring it up is you mentioned how you met a Mediterranean zones you you'd find those omega nines and people often times associate Mediterranean Mediterranean diet blue zones longevity and you know that having a lot of olive oil in their diet really being the key towards their health span and and life span what what's your take on that. First of all if you if you live in the Mediterranean it's a great place for growing veggies. And any diet you eat that has a lot of veggies in it, especially fresh veggies salads and all that stuff is going to be a diet that supports your health. Remember fresh poll raw organic and then in the days when we only had rocks to hunt with we were probably gather hunters gather our hunters rather than hunter gatherers because a hunters came home without meat that they had vegetables because they don't run away they don't fight back they're really easy to hunt down and kill right so. But in terms of the oil while they didn't fry with the oil traditionally a lot of people don't know that what they did is they cooked their food in water just like everybody did. When you go back to 1900 or before most of the cooking was done in water so then they cook their veggies in water they dumped the oil sorry they dumped the water and then they put oil on it because it it enhances flavors and improves the absorption of oil soluble nutrients. So oil belongs with food they didn't fry with it now everybody fries with it the best thing about olive oil it's relatively stable because it has virtually no mega threes. Doesn't have enough omega six doesn't have enough omega three is pretty stable and a lot of people like olive oil because it's pretty stable you can keep it in your cupboard you don't have to put it in the fridge you you can ship it without refrigeration you know when we shape our oil with to and it's more in transit more than two weeks we ship it refrigerated. Nobody wants to do that with what you know when people go on keto diets they use saturated monon saturated fat butter and coconut and and you know and the reason why they do that is because you can store those you don't have any keeping problems you don't have to take extra care nobody wants to take the extra care. But the keto diet is not sustainable if you don't pay attention to the omega threes because the omega threes and sixes I mean both of those because omega three omega six are the only thing from fats you actually need. And can't live without so if you do a keto diet and you don't pay attention and you don't put priority on omega three omega six. It is not a sustainable diet you can you can lose some weight on it it is not sustainable the only way you can make a diet sustainable is you got to make sure you get optimum omega three and optimum omega six undamaged and in the right ratio. And that's and that's that's you know it took a lot of work there's a lot of care that needs to be taken to keep those two oils fresh now let me say one other thing that comes out of this you know people say saturated fats are bad for you a lot of people say that. And the reason why is because saturated fats make your platelets more sticky so they had you in the direction of heart attack and they make you more insulin resistant so they had you in the direction of diabetes. But here's the kicker the kicker is omega threes make you more insulin sensitive so they take you away from diabetes and they make your platelets less sticky so they take you away from heart attack. And saturated fats cause you problems when your omega three deficient 99% of the population doesn't get enough omega threes so if you optimize your omega three intake and balance it with omega six is saturated fats are not a problem. Then you can eat saturated fats but you have to you have to again you have to make that your priority omega three omega six made with health and in the right ratio that has to be your priority for anything that is health related around the issues of fats and oils. And this is this is really amazing to me because I like in omega three and six is from an evolutionary perspective as somebody would with LP little a when it comes to cholesterol and blood clotting right so some people are genetically. They are predisposed to having an increased LP little a and we now know from that right from you know those markers are an APOB those markers actually promote. They promote clotting and the reason why is obviously being evolutionary as gather hunters we were more prone to having more damages and wounds and so you would need that cascade to really kick in. So in our modern society we find ourselves not having those issues right and but evolution hasn't caught up yet right and almost seems as if the story of fats is similar and that's something we need to pay attention to is that evolutionarily omega threes have the role omega six has had their role both are vital both are essential but we need to respect exactly why they're there in the first place and restore that you know golden ratio so to speak in our bodies so I found that really cool. But but let me say something about lipoprotein little a you know and what what's interesting about lipoprotein little a if you take niacin in high doses these are higher doses than you would get from food you lower lipoprotein little a. And and vitamin C does that too and Linus Pauling who kind of like got into that big time in his later years you know he was saying that lipoprotein a well first of all it can kill you so he says well you know when you think of it from an evolutionary point of view if it only had a downside but no upside. Then the people who had that factor would have been removed from the gene pool so it must have had an upside and so the upside was when the during the ice age when there were green plants and there were scare sources of vitamin C. Lipoprotein little a protected people from scurvy from dying from dying before they reproduced and that's why the human race survived. And so when you get enough vitamin C that will also lower lipoprotein little a but it was better to die after reproducing them to die beforehand. And so lipoprotein a was protect protective. In that sense. But you but people died earlier because the vitamin C was was basically under a mile of ice right and going back to talk about women right have being childbearing having that increased conversion because of the trauma that they're going through while while delivering and being labor well it's it's it's it's it's estrogen related. Because they got a they got to build a whole brain actually the research says when a woman most women don't get enough or make a three right okay so what happens the child will get it out of their brain and nature is like that right nature says a child's the future moms the past. If we have to we will sacrifice the past to to promote the future right so the child gets. Brain from her her brain gets gets omega three from her brain and they've shown that each child gets less than the previous child each child depletes the mother further and they've also shown that women get. Get to 15 times more than men the following conditions depression fibromyalgia chronic fatigue collagen diseases inflammatory diseases and autoimmune diseases and they think it's the depletion of omega threes or essential fatty acids but in our case omega threes. That sets them up for all of those conditions and their take home for us from their research is women need to make sure that they get a reliable sorts of both essential fatty acids and I'll add in the right ratio and not damaged. Both for their own health and the health of their children. Well so I think this is a perfect time to transition into gut health right and the role of omega three and six is because we know that the gut is such a vital organ for immunity right sushi with just the microbiome and us you know research a show now about 80% of our immunity is actually kind of stored in our gut so take me through wherever you want to start their relationship between fats and the gut yeah. Well when I started working on fats basically was because it was the idea that was most confused and needed the most attention to to make sense of and when I finished that and by the way omega threes are also very good for the probiotics in your gut. The friendly bacteria in your gut they work together they I think the probiotics actually convert omega threes as well. But i'm not sure there's not a lot of research on that yet so then I said okay well what's next. Once I once I figured out the story of fats what's next well digestion is the second most neglected area everybody's always got something going on either you're pooping or you're you got diarrhea or your constipator you got bad breath or you're burping up acid or. You know you're you get you get you get you get sulfur belches or you get stomach aches or you get you know food sensitivities allergies bloating you know so there's a lot and that's because so much it's all foreign material goes through this tube which is by the ways outside your body digestion takes place outside your body. Because you're the inside of your digestive tract is outside the body so the digestion takes place outside the body and then your body sucks up what it needs right and because so much foreign material is there. It is the most intense you know it's it's actually more active than your brain you know and digestion is more important than your brain because you can be you can have an IQ of 20 and still do really well on food right or you can say there are jelly fish 250 million years they've been living here. They have a really good digestive system and no bread at all right right so so so digestion is super important for survival and there are really four things that you need to do to help digestion. One of them is of course we go back to fresh whole raw organic if you eat raw foods there are enzymes in the raw foods that when you chew up those foods and when you swallow them by the time they get in your acid bath 60% of the digestion of the food has been done for you by the enzymes in the raw food on average 60 it's 10 to 90% for different foods. It's really important why is that important well because we cook our food and now when we cook our food we actually making our digestive system do more than twice as much work as it was intended to have to do. So guess who gets involved well the immune system gets involved if digestion if your digestive system can't make enough acid and enzymes to get it done then the immune system comes along and works in digestion so you tie up your immune system in your digestive system and then it's not free to go after all of the other things that should be doing around the body. So if you cook your food you should replace the enzymes you destroyed when you cook the food because then you take a load off the digestive system which now frees the immune system which by the way is why it's why it's why enzymes are recommended even for viral infections even for bacterial infections. Because the enzymes the protease enzymes that digest protein they will digest the protein coat off viruses and most viruses have protein coats not all of them but most of them. And when you when digestive enzymes digest the protein coat off the virus then the virus is put out a commission because it can't get into the cell it needs the protein coat it needs the it needs the landing module it needs the you know the contractiles proteins to push its genetic material into the cells. So when I get a cold or start getting a sore throat i'll take a capsule of digestive enzymes with protease in it chew it up, push it around in my mouth everywhere and I would I'm doing is I'm helping take a load off my immune system by putting as many viruses out of commission as possible. When a virus goes into the cell you know it goes it commandeers the cell machinery makes 200 300 copies of itself and then the cell blows up and now you've got 200 300 viruses all looking for a cell and that's why it takes seven to nine days to get over cold because your immune system has to figure out what's the virus and then you know how do we make the antibody against it and then how many antibodies do we make to take it down and that takes several days but you could pick it off before they get into your cells you're actually taking a huge load off your digestive system so that's the that's the digestive part. The probiotic part you know we we have everybody knows by now probably that we have ten times more microbes in our gut than we have cells in our body and between them they have about a hundred times more different genes than we have in our genetic material. And in our gut they make all kinds of stuff some of it is toxic and some of it is helpful and you know it's so so basically some of that is absorbed into our body and it affects our body works. If you eat meat you get unfriendly herb bacteria then if you eat plants and the shift happens very quickly within days of switching to a meat diet switching to a plant diet switching from a plant to a meat diet happens very quickly. The probiotics get killed they're usually on plants that's where cow gets them they start in its mouth when it needs grass so you get that digestive you you get probiotics and you want them to start in your mouth and they work their entire way through your digestive tract and they keep the unfriendly bacteria from getting out of control. So when you cook your foods you kill them so you need to replace those two I brush my teeth with them at night before I go to bed I work up with exponentially less severe bad breath in the morning and there's a whole bunch of them the best ones are the bifidobacteria and the lactobacillus they again they take more care they need refrigeration. They don't form spores so they're not as hardy as some other ones and we work with those unbelievably good the third one is fiber fiber is the food for for microbes eat lots of it's lot it's eat lots of plants and then the fourth one is bitters. bitters are herbs that are good for both digestion and liver function and if you do those four things right you can pretty much pick off most of what goes wrong in the digestive tract. But all we're doing is bringing it back in line with how it was in nature before we got so civilized and processed our foods into such a mess. Right right and what does the research show about the role of having this good ratio of omega three to six is with gut health right like how does it exactly working as far as the gut lining goes and what the role is in that regard. Yeah okay places they both play a role in the cell membranes they make the cell membranes more efficient omega three's make them do their job 40 to 60% more effectively just like they make the muscles do they also make hormones work more effectively at the cell receptor level. So they so they strengthen the energy the cells ability to do their job whatever their job is throughout the body. In terms of they slow down digestion a little bit that means there's more time to get the digestion done so they help in that way. And I'm not sure that they have they they may have other functions I don't know of hand but they also make your bones stronger and they make your hair and nails grow better and they're very important for vision pregnancy we talked about deliver and and kidneys require essential fatty acids they are extremely important for wound healing. I mean it just goes on and on and on yeah for sure yeah absolutely so well I know I know we were talking offline about continuing with the part two and I think that would be wise there's so much more I want to ask you I mean I haven't even touched on the anabolic potential of omega three's right especially in the rehab world which I'm closely tied to as a physical medicine and rehabilitation doctor a lot of the research now showing about disused atrophy and preventing those things. There's a lot of new research coming out on that so definitely want to pick your brain on that but also just about human nature philosophy and healthcare you know you shared an awesome story about you go to medical school for a year and kind of about that so we'll save all that for part two so the audience has something to look forward to but I really appreciate you coming on here given such a great comprehensive overview of omega three omega sixes that's and just really educating us I mean things that obviously we don't learn a medical school but. A lot of what the audience also just doesn't learn through social media or wherever they get the news from so thanks for educating us and even if you're you know I have I'm lucky because I took the chemistry the biochemistry but a lot of what I've learned. That didn't come out of the research it came out of actually working with people and seeing the differences that make because the research is like pretty limited I mean there might be there might be thousands of studies but still pretty limited and to work with to actually work with people and see the changes and you know it's like it's unbelievably amazing for sure yeah yeah with that we'll see everyone on part two yep that sounds good. All right thank you so much for tuning in again there's so much controversy in the world right now in regards to fatty acids seed oils omega three and sixes I mean it goes on and on and so we're super grateful that Udo could come on and inform us all about fast and the research that he's been a part of and what he's read through and the things that he's experienced at the young age of 81 so if there's anyone that you know who wants to get educated about it nutrition especially about fats please send them this episode I think you know one of the most important concepts that I've learned is that our lived experiences are truly different depending on the decade that we grew up in right so if somebody grew up in the 70s they might think that fats are really bad for them and they still may have that mindset whereas somebody growing up in the 2000s may have a completely opposite relationship to fats and nutrition so please send this to people that you know could benefit from it. Next week will be part two and we will again have Udo on but we will be talking about the role of feces fatty acids in medical conditions as always if there are any guests that you want us to speak to about any types of topics please go on medicine redefine.com leave us a review and in that review let us know who it is that you want to bring on exactly what you want us to talk about we will try our very best to print that wish as always everything in this podcast is for educational purposes only it is not constitute the practice of medicine and we are not providing medical advice no physician patient relationship is formed and anything discussed in this podcast not represent the views of our employers we recommend that you see the guidance of your personal position regarding any specific health weighted issues and thank you to our team Harita Yapuri and Ethan Joo for the production of this podcast we'll see you here next week.